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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 3rd, 2018, 3:08 pm

yuge business decision for the product design.
It always is.

BTW, I think the choice of OS is not critical.

You anti-MS guys ;) seem to think VS only works under Windows.

https://code.visualstudio.com/download
So then probably the cheapest OS for heavy computing is the way to go and that's probably Linux.
Depends on how you define 'cheap'. People are more expensive than software and linux has a reputation for being user-unfriendly in some areas. Are you saying that C++ on Windows is slower than C++ on linux? 

TOC and all that comes into play as soon as linux is introduced into the organisation.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 3rd, 2018, 5:39 pm

yuge business decision for the product design.
It always is.

BTW, I think the choice of OS is not critical.

You anti-MS guys ;) seem to think VS only works under Windows.

https://code.visualstudio.com/download
So then probably the cheapest OS for heavy computing is the way to go and that's probably Linux.
Depends on how you define 'cheap'. People are more expensive than software and linux has a reputation for being user-unfriendly in some areas. Are you saying that C++ on Windows is slower than C++ on linux? 

TOC and all that comes into play as soon as linux is introduced into the organisation.
C++ has a reputation for being user-unfriendly so that's no showstopper.

I'm saying C++ on Windows costs more per CPU-hour than C++ on linux. Even on Microsoft Azure's system, Windows costs 50% more per hour to run. On Amazon AWS, it's nearly double the cost. Why pay an OS license for running financial library computations?

(P.S. If people costs are the issue, then pick Apple. Even IBM switched from PCs to Macs when they realized how much is would save in labor and support costs.)
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 3rd, 2018, 7:37 pm

So then probably the cheapest OS for heavy computing is the way to go and that's probably Linux.
Depends on how you define 'cheap'. People are more expensive than software and linux has a reputation for being user-unfriendly in some areas. Are you saying that C++ on Windows is slower than C++ on linux? 

TOC and all that comes into play as soon as linux is introduced into the organisation.
C++ has a reputation for being user-unfriendly so that's no showstopper.

I'm saying C++ on Windows costs more per CPU-hour than C++ on linux.  Even on Microsoft Azure's system, Windows costs 50% more per hour to run.  On Amazon AWS, it's nearly double the cost.  Why pay an OS license for running financial library computations?

(P.S.  If people costs are the issue, then pick Apple.  Even IBM switched from PCs to Macs when they realized how much is would save in labor and support costs.)
IBM is a big place. For me, Mac is (as least it was) for graphics artists. C++ is a pain on Mac.

Of all the C++ courses I gave since 1990  I can't remember anyone with a Mac..

Speaking of costs,  I remember NEXT (but never bought one)

Steve Jobs pooled the finest of over-specified hardware and software (from PC standards) into NeXT and the company added its own innovations. NeXT was the machine-of-choice for well-funded Unix-friendly science departments.

And iphone is $$ . Retro Nokia 3310 for me, thank you very much :D

Apple started the Taligent project in 1989, with the goal of building a NeXT-like operating system for the Macintosh
I remember Taligent briefings (over-engineered, 90% complete OOP yuge class libraries). Not a good buy IMO. An OO OS meshuggah.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on February 3rd, 2018, 8:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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ISayMoo
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 3rd, 2018, 7:49 pm

For Python and data crunching, Linux is the way to go.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 4th, 2018, 8:19 am

For Python and data crunching, Linux is the way to go.
What's the reason(s)?
What do you mean by 'data crunching'?
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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ISayMoo
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 4th, 2018, 12:40 pm

Crunching. You know, like tacos.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 5th, 2018, 9:39 pm

Crunching. You know, like tacos.
Hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 6th, 2018, 1:49 am

Crunching. You know, like tacos.
Hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
What if your computer runs the soft shell?
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 6th, 2018, 9:39 am

Crunching. You know, like tacos.
Hard on the outside, soft on the inside.
What if your computer runs the soft shell?
Bourne (again) shell?
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

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FaridMoussaoui
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 6th, 2018, 4:45 pm

Of all the C++ courses I gave since 1990  I can't remember anyone with a Mac..
As a reminder as a finite element developer, Pironneau always used a Mac fo his C++ programming and he wrote a lot of codes.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 6th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Of all the C++ courses I gave since 1990  I can't remember anyone with a Mac..
As a reminder as a finite element developer, Pironneau always used a Mac fo his C++ programming and he wrote a lot of codes.
I met Olivier in IRIA (now INRIA) in 1975 and I cannot remember his using a Mac, I vaguely remember him and Mr. Marocco doing FORTRAN.

And what a huge influence JL Lions was on the Paris VI/INRIA community!
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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FaridMoussaoui
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 6th, 2018, 8:17 pm

He started in the 80'.

PS: always should be removed from my sentence.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 22nd, 2018, 10:35 am

How many open source projects are 'open' in the sense of being interoperable with other software systems? Coming up with a conforming common standard is a non-starter IMO.

They tend to be 'silos of automation'.

Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or systems, at present or future, in either implementation or access, without any restrictions.

e.g. Quantlib, Boost etc.?
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 22nd, 2018, 1:16 pm

How many open source projects are 'open' in the sense of being interoperable with other software systems? Coming up with a conforming common standard is a non-starter IMO.

They tend to be 'silos of automation'.

Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or systems, at present or future, in either implementation or access, without any restrictions.

e.g. Quantlib, Boost etc.?
That's not what "open" means although having unrestricted access to the code certainly means the interfaces are completely understood (unlike proprietary software).

It would seem that Microsoft is a far worse silo with far less interoperability than most open source projects.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Does Open Source Software have a future (of kinds)?

February 22nd, 2018, 2:33 pm

How many open source projects are 'open' in the sense of being interoperable with other software systems? Coming up with a conforming common standard is a non-starter IMO.

They tend to be 'silos of automation'.

Interoperability is a characteristic of a product or system, whose interfaces are completely understood, to work with other products or systems, at present or future, in either implementation or access, without any restrictions.

e.g. Quantlib, Boost etc.?
That's not what "open" means although having unrestricted access to the code certainly means the interfaces are completely understood (unlike proprietary software).

It would seem that Microsoft is a far worse silo with far less interoperability than most open source projects.
Of course you are right; open source is not a whole of things. Here it what is:

Open-source software (OSS) is computer software with its source code made available with a license in which the copyright holder provides the rights to study, change, and distribute the software to anyone and for any purpose.[1] Open-source software may be developed in a collaborative public manner. According to scientists who studied it, open-source software is a prominent example of open collaboration.[2] The term is often written without a hyphen as "open source software".

No mention of interop, which is my thesis. i.e. it is silent on the topic of interop. In fainess, it is not a requirement.

I think that was true in the 90s. But you probably are not aware of developments in MS the last few years. You might be surprised.
Personally, I have no interest in smart phone interop, so no need starting a brush fire,

Back to topic: how many open-source codes are interoperable? (btw there is a precise definition, so I won't give a link)?
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
David Wheeler

http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl