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theGreek
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Joined: September 30th, 2003, 12:29 pm

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 9:11 am

Hi all, I was watching this program yesterday on plane crashes and an old thought of mine came to mind. How comes airplanes don't have parachutes? I don't mean for the passengers but for the vessel. I have seen tanks been thrown of the back of C-130s in midair and landing perfectly using three or more parachutes. I know that the speed of the plane and the fact that its travelling at about 600m/h makes it very difficult to use parachute effectively but i can't see why a series of parachutes deployed one after another wouldn't slow its descent in case of an emergency. Moreover the "emergency" position that we are requested to assume is an absolute killer. neck is going to break at the mildest of impacts. why on earth don't they fit the seats the other way round (facing the back of the plane)? I'm sure there are some people with great knowledge of physics on this forum so I would really appreciate your thoughts. PS. As you probably guessed Im shit-scared of flying.
 
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flymuse

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 9:18 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: theGreekHi all,why on earth don't they fit the seats the other way round (facing the back of the plane)? People don't like travelling backwards.
 
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Nonius
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Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 9:47 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: theGreekHi all, I was watching this program yesterday on plane crashes and an old thought of mine came to mind. How comes airplanes don't have parachutes? I don't mean for the passengers but for the vessel. I have seen tanks been thrown of the back of C-130s in midair and landing perfectly using three or more parachutes. I know that the speed of the plane and the fact that its travelling at about 600m/h makes it very difficult to use parachute effectively but i can't see why a series of parachutes deployed one after another wouldn't slow its descent in case of an emergency. Moreover the "emergency" position that we are requested to assume is an absolute killer. neck is going to break at the mildest of impacts. why on earth don't they fit the seats the other way round (facing the back of the plane)? I'm sure there are some people with great knowledge of physics on this forum so I would really appreciate your thoughts. PS. As you probably guessed Im shit-scared of flying.my guess is that a 777, which apparently can weigh up to 774,600 pounds, would not be able to employ a parachute at anywhere near its top speed of 600MPH +...maybe at a low speed.
 
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LongTheta
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Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 6:06 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 10:29 am

Planes are very well qualified to handle any mechanical/electrical emergency that one can logically anticipate, in ways that are much better than depolying a parachute: The wings are very robust and flexible, planes can fly with one engine only, every electrical part has a back-up part, they are built to withstand very heavy turbulence (just keep your seat belt on), very heavy thunder strikes (though you may become temporarily deaf), etc, etc. Problems arise for reasons that simply cannot be logically anticipated, or that can be attributed to human errors of judgement: the pilot goes whacko and decides to do something really stupid and take his passengers with him (EgyptAir off the East Coast), collisions on take off (Singapore Airlines in Taiwan) or even in mid air (Russian charter plane over Switzerland) due to air traffic controller's mistakes, bad landings (Qantas in Manila -- no one was killed, but came really close), bad maintenance (a plane can drop like a stone a few meters above the ground on take off). In all such cases, parachutes will not be of any help. When comes to such possibilities, we have to have faith in the pilot, co-pilot, maintenance people and air traffic controllers.Now when I think about it, every time I drive my car, with cars coming at full speed from the opposite direction, I trust that none of these other drivers will decide to swerve a little and enter into my lane. Because if they do, whether intentionally or accidentally, then I know and I'm fully aware of the fact that there is nothing that I can do to avoid a head-on collision. There is no way to take action within a split second and avoid a collision of that type. In that sense, every time I drive from home to work, I have faith in the good judgement of about ---- I don't know, maybe 5,000 people. That's a lot more than the number of pilots, co-pilots, maintenance and air traffic controllers that I trust every year.
 
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Nonius
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Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 11:46 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: LongThetaPlanes are very well qualified to handle any mechanical/electrical emergency that one can logically anticipate, in ways that are much better than depolying a parachute: The wings are very robust and flexible, planes can fly with one engine only, every electrical part has a back-up part, they are built to withstand very heavy turbulence (just keep your seat belt on), very heavy thunder strikes (though you may become temporarily deaf), etc, etc. Problems arise for reasons that simply cannot be logically anticipated, or that can be attributed to human errors of judgement: the pilot goes whacko and decides to do something really stupid and take his passengers with him (EgyptAir off the East Coast), collisions on take off (Singapore Airlines in Taiwan) or even in mid air (Russian charter plane over Switzerland) due to air traffic controller's mistakes, bad landings (Qantas in Manila -- no one was killed, but came really close), bad maintenance (a plane can drop like a stone a few meters above the ground on take off). In all such cases, parachutes will not be of any help. When comes to such possibilities, we have to have faith in the pilot, co-pilot, maintenance people and air traffic controllers.Now when I think about it, every time I drive my car, with cars coming at full speed from the opposite direction, I trust that none of these other drivers will decide to swerve a little and enter into my lane. Because if they do, whether intentionally or accidentally, then I know and I'm fully aware of the fact that there is nothing that I can do to avoid a head-on collision. There is no way to take action within a split second and avoid a collision of that type. In that sense, every time I drive from home to work, I have faith in the good judgement of about ---- I don't know, maybe 5,000 people. That's a lot more than the number of pilots, co-pilots, maintenance and air traffic controllers that I trust every year.dude, don't think about it too much...Just take a few shots of good scotch, and bite your lip. forget about the analysis.
 
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golftango
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Joined: December 4th, 2003, 2:13 pm

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 11:57 am

Why not think in VaR terms ?If you fly with a regular airline once a week, what may be your VaR, with 1yr horizon @ 99.99% ? According to historical data, 0.000.Maybe Var is scary...
 
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Mela
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Joined: May 13th, 2003, 9:29 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 4:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: theGreek PS. As you probably guessed Im shit-scared of flying.Take the train!
 
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abumazen
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Joined: September 10th, 2003, 7:37 pm

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 5:11 pm

My old neighbor ran a maintenance crew for United Airlines. For some reason, that meant he had a lot of stories about crash sites where people's shoes had exploded. In other words, they went from 600 to zero so quick, that their bodily fluids slid down their skeletons and punched through their shoelaces.Anyway, the solution is to put First Class in a special fireproof capsule at the back of the plane, on rails (aka "the lead sled"). That way, when they plane hits the ground and stops, the capsule then plows through the 120 rows of seats ahead of it, before gradually coming to rest in the cockpit.MP
Last edited by abumazen on February 1st, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Nonius
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Joined: January 22nd, 2003, 6:48 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 7:16 pm

this is a little apropos, but did anyone catch that thread yesterday about the huckster in South Florida looking for boiler room space? I actually checked out his website......very dubious shit.......
 
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patch22
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Joined: May 9th, 2002, 7:50 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 7:46 pm

i saw a documentary on plane crashes in which they quoted that the probability of being involved in a plane crash is such that you could get on a commercial passenger jet once a day for 20 years before you have lived out probability 1 of being in an accident.now lets say im a stewardess, getting on 3 times a day, and my career is well into its 6th year.....
 
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millhouse
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Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 2nd, 2004, 8:38 pm

j.c. is the only parachute you'll ever need.thank you jesus!
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 41
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 3rd, 2004, 10:52 am

The biggest danger of jets is not an unsheduled interface with terrestial boundaries.Its the radiation. Most of the nasty radiation that hits the human race come from being up that high for so long with no protection.
 
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LongTheta
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Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 6:06 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 3rd, 2004, 10:59 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCThe biggest danger of jets is not an unsheduled interface with terrestial boundaries.Its the radiation. Most of the nasty radiation that hits the human race come from being up that high for so long with no protection.Radiation is one potential health hazard that I hardly see discussed anywhere. Do you know of any (medically substantiated) details?
 
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theGreek
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Joined: September 30th, 2003, 12:29 pm

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 3rd, 2004, 11:40 am

Still looking out for an equation that will explain why a 300 tonns object moving at 600m speed cannot be slowed down by a succession of parachute deployments given 30000 feet of space. I mean NASA has developed material that can withstand extreme temparatures and forces (such as the one used as heatshield for the lunar capsules) how can they not develop something that will make millions of passengers (like me) feel safer when boarding an airplane? I think it is a marketing strategy!!! In the early fifties when car production was booming the last thing manufacturers wanted to hear about was seat belts. They didn't want the idea of death or injury to spoil the aura of speed and style. I think the same is happenning with airplanes. They could install seats facing the back of the plane making it safer in the case of crash landings but it would spoil the aura of speed and style. Moreover I'm sure they could look into developing a parachute but again this would only make passengers realise that planes do fall from the skies. I'm sure that if an investigation was to take place in all the accidents that have taken place so far the findings would suggest that lives could be saved by improving passive safety. I know I sound a bit paranoid (maybe a lot) but the nature of my work requires me to fly really often and unfortunately in a couple of occasions I have experienced really bad turbulence. I've tried the "drink yourself stupid" approach... didn't work, tried smoking "stuff" before flying which actually worked but I was afraid my clothes stunk of the "stuff" so never tried it again. Any other methods out there? (preferably legal)
 
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andym
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Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Planes emergency positions and parachutes

February 3rd, 2004, 11:51 am

Why don't they just make the whole plane out of the stuff they make the black boxes out of?