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athos20145
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April 19th, 2004, 12:32 pm

Are u proud of Zapatero's decision to quit Iraq (unsuprisingly backed by Prodi)?
 
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setesois
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April 19th, 2004, 1:20 pm

I'm not spanish, but i guess nationality is not the important issue here and all opinions are valid. In my opinion the decision of Zapatero it's as wrong as the decision of Aznar. Doing so, Zapatero is giving a "reason" to Al-Qaeda to proceed with terrorist attacks, because they really can change political decisions. The first sign came from the the spanish voters, and now from Zapatero. I didn't agree with the war but decisions like this open a "green light" for Al-Qaeda and show that terror is really in our cities.
 
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DominicConnor
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April 19th, 2004, 2:49 pm

I'm afraid I agree with setesois.Zapatero made a dumb promise. If you have a terrorist group demanding something, and a political party promises to deliver it, then the terrorists have a big incentive to murder people in a way that supports that objective.I'm not for one moment saying that Zapatero was in league with the people who planted the bombs on the train, but for a while they had the same objective of getting rid of the old government. It is always uncomfortable to find yourself in agreement with the bad guys. A smarter leader would have thought this through. Instead it was just a way of kicking a political opponent. Thus Zapatero was dumb to make the promise, and who knows ? perhaps it did inspire the terrorists to attack Spain. I don't know what was in their mind, doubt if I ever will. But it was a dumb thing to do.Having made the promise, Zapatero's problem is now 10 times worse. If he honours his word he helps terrorists, but if he doesn't then Spaniards will blame him for any future attacks. He can't win.
 
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DiceMan
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April 19th, 2004, 3:24 pm

QuoteI'm afraid I agree with setesois.Zapatero made a dumb promise. If you have a terrorist group demanding something, and a political party promises to deliver it, then the terrorists have a big incentive to murder people in a way that supports that objective.I'm not for one moment saying that Zapatero was in league with the people who planted the bombs on the train, but for a while they had the same objective of getting rid of the old government. It is always uncomfortable to find yourself in agreement with the bad guys. A smarter leader would have thought this through. Instead it was just a way of kicking a political opponent. Thus Zapatero was dumb to make the promise, and who knows ? perhaps it did inspire the terrorists to attack Spain. I don't know what was in their mind, doubt if I ever will. But it was a dumb thing to do.Having made the promise, Zapatero's problem is now 10 times worse. If he honours his word he helps terrorists, but if he doesn't then Spaniards will blame him for any future attacks.He can't win. so if you had a terrorist group in the uk asking for more money into education and the health system, would it be wrong if tony blair put more money in education and the health system?
Last edited by DiceMan on April 18th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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setesois
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April 19th, 2004, 4:10 pm

The question here is not if the terrorists have the reason. The question is that Zapatero, by taking the troops from Iraq, is giving a reason for some more attacks and doing exactly what AL-Qaeda pretended. If worked out in Spain why not in USA, Italy, England?
 
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laosun
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April 19th, 2004, 4:19 pm

I think that to withdraw from a unjustified war is doing the right thing.I think the spanish government and people are courageous enough to do so.There is something wrong from the very beginning let us reckon it and resolve it in another way
 
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mikebell
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April 19th, 2004, 4:31 pm

"I think the spanish government and people are courageous enough to do so."Look folks, it's amateur comedy night at Wilmott! Hehe
 
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laosun
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April 19th, 2004, 4:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: mikebell"I think the spanish government and people are courageous enough to do so."Look folks, it's amateur comedy night at Wilmott! HeheI think the real reason of terrosism is that amateurs are not making comedy but also politicshahahahaha
 
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zerdna
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April 19th, 2004, 4:59 pm

I am not spanish, so i won't venture an opinion about this question. I think a question of whether someone is more proud is not the question i'd be able to discuss anyhow. I would ask the Spanish a different question -- "do you think you will be safer from now on?"QuoteMath selutions are more like to be reasonable in theory than in practice. It become some sort of gamble in practice, as if I gave you the loto numbers of the last several years, you would not be able to tell me the next win! laosun, you do not attribute the wisdom about "math selutions and loto numbers" to anyone. Out of curiosity, did you by any chance come up with it by yourself? In this case you should just sign it.
 
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laosun
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April 19th, 2004, 7:57 pm

No body is safe now, because we are all paying dearly for the fault of few poeple, but i do not think violence can stop violence. I am working in the financial sector, i am very interested in what quants people do. but not a quant as i am not very smart on maths (returned them to my maths teachers years ago)well, you know, that is my pholosophie on maths that works for a lot of thingbut in finance maths work not only because it is a science but also because believe it works
 
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mikebell
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April 20th, 2004, 3:59 am

laosun, if somebody bloodies and breaks your nose, tells you to run away or he'll go after your leg next, and you walk away without fighting back, are you courageous?
 
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BobM
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April 20th, 2004, 6:32 am

So clearly if you are subjected to state terror, focefully removed from your land, opressed etc... when you fight back the whole world is going to rally round you for being corageous and standing up for yourself...hmm or maybe not..... QuoteOriginally posted by: mikebelllaosun, if somebody bloodies and breaks your nose, tells you to run away or he'll go after your leg next, and you walk away without fighting back, are you courageous?
 
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laosun
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April 20th, 2004, 6:54 am

You might not know that the two Chinese taken in hostage in Irak days ago were soon freed as they were identified as Chinese.I was wondering that maybe that these named terrorists are not killing whoever you are, they are revenging themselves thinking that they were unfairly traited by some countries or peoples, of cause their ways of doing so is wrong. I will never agree with such killing.I think the best way to stop violence is to get rid of the rout of unfairness.Then the terrorists will loose their root and popularity and just die out.Use unjustice to fight unjustice will just increase the violence.I think, the oldest wisdom of humanity has already warned us against the way people combat the evil, because those who combat the evil will soon attracted by the evilness and replace the later.Unfortunately, that is what happening: there are more than three times innocent poeple died in the latest wars than those in the 11/09 attack, why we are not thinking of those poeple who died for nothing without anybody to name them?The american is a being the afganistani as well as the iraki toooooooooooooooooooooooooo...Any way, I do not think war is the right way to resolve the problemsBy the way: my answer to your question, mikebell, concerning that one who bloodly beated me.If I did something wrong which made the guy do so, well, I pay for my wrong doingsIf I did not, I then fight back and tell him that is what he would get in doing something wrongAnd now my question is: do you really think that those terrorists had just attacked the American for the pleasures of killing???I think those who did that knew what they could get in doing so, but they had done it, why poeple did not leave them a second choice?Brainwashed? Religious?No, religions are never the end by a means.You can not completedly brainwash somebody just in simply doing so.By the way, who are really brainwashed, just look at the socalled modern way how we live.Bed, work and news papers...... We are as vulneral as those poor pesants in Afgan.We are in a circle of wrongdoing against wrongdoing, we will never finish with that.....
 
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DiceMan
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April 20th, 2004, 7:02 am

Quotelaosun, if somebody bloodies and breaks your nose, tells you to run away or he'll go after your leg next, and you walk away without fighting back, are you courageous?i bloodie and break the nose of some other random guy
 
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player
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Joined: August 5th, 2002, 10:00 am

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April 20th, 2004, 8:36 am

There should be a prize for the most stupid comments posted on the forum...Whether you agree on the war on Iraq or not , Spanish troops along with others are doing a very useful job in trying to bring about stability in Iraq and trying to build Iraq following not only the bombing but also brought about by years of torture for many by Sadam Hussain... Imagine what would happen to the country if everyone pulled out...Whatever you may think now the situation now it would be a hell of a lot worse with a lot more bloodshed...without the coalition troops. In a years time hoefully the place will become more peacefull and law and order can be instilled into the country but to withdraw right now and in the manner in which they have done (read today's Wall Street Journal which talks about this issue in length) just smacks of sheer stupidity
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