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Mela
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April 20th, 2004, 8:57 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerThere should be a prize for the most stupid comments posted on the forum...Whether you agree on the war on Iraq or not , Spanish troops along with others are doing a very useful job in trying to bring about stability in Iraq and trying to build Iraq following not only the bombing but also brought about by years of torture for many by Sadam Hussain... Imagine what would happen to the country if everyone pulled out...Whatever you may think now the situation now it would be a hell of a lot worse with a lot more bloodshed...without the coalition troops. In a years time hoefully the place will become more peacefull and law and order can be instilled into the country but to withdraw right now and in the manner in which they have done (read today's Wall Street Journal which talks about this issue in length) just smacks of sheer stupidityI totally agree. Whatever the situation was before and during the war, the situation has changed now. To take out the troops at this stage would be doing more harm than good, both to the iraki people and to the rest of the world. Some modicum of peace must be established before the country can be left to sort out it's problems for itself.
 
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DiceMan
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April 20th, 2004, 9:14 am

QuoteThere should be a prize for the most stupid comments posted on the forum...Whether you agree on the war on Iraq or not , Spanish troops along with others are doing a very useful job in trying to bring about stability in Iraq and trying to build Iraq following not only the bombing but also brought about by years of torture for many by Sadam Hussain... Imagine what would happen to the country if everyone pulled out...Whatever you may think now the situation now it would be a hell of a lot worse with a lot more bloodshed...without the coalition troops. In a years time hoefully the place will become more peacefull and law and order can be instilled into the country but to withdraw right now and in the manner in which they have done (read today's Wall Street Journal which talks about this issue in length) just smacks of sheer stupidity i couldn't agree more and i think if some guy suspects you hide weapons in your house, he should break in, destroy and kill a few people. And when he s realised there aren t any, he should stay there. To rebuild. And bring back law and order.
 
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MattF
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April 20th, 2004, 9:18 am

Zapatero: If I am elected I will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq.Zapatero is elected.And now you seriously argue than he shouldnt withdraw troops??? This has nothing to do with Iraq ... it's simply whether you think politicians should honour promises.
 
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DiceMan
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April 20th, 2004, 9:27 am

QuoteZapatero: If I am elected I will withdraw Spanish troops from Iraq.Zapatero is elected.And now you seriously argue than he shouldnt withdraw troops??? This has nothing to do with Iraq ... it's simply whether you think politicians should honour promises.no no no. it s got nothing to do with premises.whatever your premises are you should not honour them if a terrorist group wants the same thing. otherwise you are a coward. if al qaeda makes a statement asking you to drink water tomorrow morning you shouldn't do it! otherwise that would mean that they win and that they can control our lives!
 
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player
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April 20th, 2004, 10:04 am

The sheer ignorance of some people on this forum is just amazing. For what its worth I don’t agree with the war on Iraq for a number of reasons. However we now have to move on and try and make Iraq a safe and prosperable place to live in. Yes MattF you are right, Zapertero promised to take out the troops from Iraq, which was a stupid thing to say in the first place. However my point is, he is withdrawing earlier than he said he would putting added strain on the existing troops in the area, making no allowance for the safety of those troops in the area, where the Spanish troops are currently presiding or the safety of the Iraqi people in the area. To start making comments such as ...........and i think if some guy suspects you hide weapons in your house, he should break in, destroy and kill a few people. And when he s realised there aren t any, he should stay there. To rebuild. And bring back law and order........is just silly. According to this sarcasm, you’re saying that all coalition troops should withdraw now…I wonder where that would leave Iraq…civil war, a country ruled along ethnic lines, a breeding ground for terrorism……I’m sure that would make the world a safer place
 
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DiceMan
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April 20th, 2004, 10:09 am

QuoteTo start making comments such as ...........and i think if some guy suspects you hide weapons in your house, he should break in, destroy and kill a few people. And when he s realised there aren t any, he should stay there. To rebuild. And bring back law and order........is just silly. According to this sarcasm, you’re saying that all coalition troops should withdraw now…I wonder where that would leave Iraq…civil war, a country ruled along ethnic lines, a breeding ground for terrorism……I’m sure that would make the world a safer placeabsolutely not, i m being serious. i agree with you!indeed it would not be safe to leave your house out of control!
 
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daveangel
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April 20th, 2004, 10:14 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerThe sheer ignorance of some people on this forum is just amazing. However we now have to move on and try and make Iraq a safe and prosperable place to live in. Yes MattF you are right, Zapertero promised to take out the troops from Iraq, which was a stupid thing to say in the first place. However my point is, he is withdrawing earlier than he said he would putting added strain on the existing troops in the area, making no allowance for the safety of those troops in the area, where the Spanish troops are currently presiding or the safety of the Iraqi people in the area. Actually the effect of the Spanish withdrawal will not be increased pressure on the troops in Iraq, but increased pressure on the politicians back in home. This is the beginning of the end of the so-called "coalition of the willing".
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers
 
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laosun
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April 20th, 2004, 10:16 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerThere should be a prize for the most stupid comments posted on the forum...totally agree, but .....QuoteOriginally posted by: playerWhether you agree on the war on Iraq or not , Spanish troops along with others are doing a very useful job in trying to bring about stability in Iraq and trying to build Iraq following not only the bombing but also brought about by years of torture for many by Sadam Hussain... Imagine what would happen to the country if everyone pulled out...Whatever you may think now the situation now it would be a hell of a lot worse with a lot more bloodshed...without the coalition troops. In a years time hoefully the place will become more peacefull and law and order can be instilled into the country but to withdraw right now and in the manner in which they have done (read today's Wall Street Journal which talks about this issue in length) just smacks of sheer stupidityThe place in this world, where people are suffering the most is N. Korea, it is true before and after SADAM was ousted out.The place in this world, where more innocent poeple die even daily is the African continent.Why don't send troops to save Korean poeple? Because, there you will get no oil but troublesThe money spended in wars last few years can save all africains from suffering, why don't invest money in Africa instead of doing wars in Irak? Because, to control the richess in forest in far less interesting than oil. (they do not give a single shit to signe the Toyoto agreement to control pollution which makes nature and all humanity exposed to the danger of extinguition, what a mockery to save iraki people?)Whatsever we say, I think the vice president must be very glad that his company is making profits in Irak, Y he should give damn to the death roll in Irak?
 
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DiceMan
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April 20th, 2004, 10:22 am

QuoteThe place in this world, where people are suffering the most is N. Korea, it is true before and after SADAM was ousted out.The place in this world, where more innocent poeple die even daily is the African continent.Why don't send troops to save Korean poeple? Because, there you will get no oil but troublesThe money spended in wars last few years can save all africains from suffering, why don't invest money in Africa instead of doing wars in Irak? Because, to control the richess in forest in far less interesting than oil. (they do not give a single shit to signe the Toyoto agreement to control pollution which makes nature and all humanity exposed to the danger of extinguition, what a mockery to save iraki people?)Whatsever we say, I think the vice president must be very glad that his company is making profits in Irak, Y he should give damn to the death roll in Irak?Unfortunately it is difficult to send troops and make people happier in every country....But if you re a doctor, and there are 10 patients requiring treatment, and if you can only give treatment to one... what do you do?You refuse to give treatments to all of them because it would be unfair?!No, you give treatment to one. This is what is happening at the moment.Hop[efully in the future we ll have the means to give treatment to more people, and the world will become a beteter place.
 
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player
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April 20th, 2004, 10:22 am

laosunThis topic isnt about whether the war in Iraq is just or not (do a search on this forum for these rtype of posts). Like I said in my earleir post I dont agree that the war in Iraq was justThis is topic is about whether Zapertero is right to pull spanish troop out of Iraq....
 
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laosun
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April 20th, 2004, 10:43 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerlaosunThis topic isnt about whether the war in Iraq is just or not (do a search on this forum for these rtype of posts). Like I said in my earleir post I dont agree that the war in Iraq was justThis is topic is about whether Zapertero is right to pull spanish troop out of Iraq....haha, i maybe being going to far in that topicwell to be honest, people should keep his promise (but zapertero is not only elected for his promise to pull out but also because of the former primer's attitude towards the pasques poeple in Spain)secondly, this will forced the allied troop to rethink of this war, the next war will not be so easy to lance maybe. that might be a good thing.another thing is that, if the war is not just, than why we stick to that, but the one who made the trouble, if they had killed people and broken families. They need to stay to repair and do reconstruction work.Notice that as well, Zapertero said that he would not pull out if there was a UN solution
 
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player
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April 20th, 2004, 11:08 am

Noone in their right mind would trust their soldiers to the UN when it comes to possiblity of armed conflict. Imagine soldeirs under the command of UN and they are getting shot at. They will probably have to call 300 hundred different people all over the world, get a resolution which is supported by 299 of those 300 people and only then will they be able to fire back......Think serbia, bosnia , rwanda ,....all example of the UN f**king up. Quoteanother thing is that, if the war is not just, than why we stick to that, but the one who made the trouble, if they had killed people and broken families. They need to stay to repair and do reconstruction work.Spain supported the war on iraq and gave backing to Bush and while spanish soldiers maynot have dropped the actual bombs , without heir backing it would have been even harder for bush and the US to have done so ....That means according to your theory Spain should stay QED...
 
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andym
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Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

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April 20th, 2004, 11:39 am

As I said in another thread, Spanish presence in Iraq is almost purely symbolic.They (and others) allow Bush and Blair to keep a straight face when talking abt their international coalition. Spanish were pretty much along for the ride, showing solidarity, but very little else. So to argue that they should now stay, just to give Al Qaeda a big fuck-you, doesn't seem to me to be a sound basis for policy.So what if they withdraw? I read today Honduras and Phillipines may also pull out... Symbolic displays of solidarity are all very well, but doesn't seem worth putting your cock on a block for (especially in Spain's case, where voters and government are implacably opposed to the whole enterprise).
 
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doubleV
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Joined: June 25th, 2003, 11:27 am

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April 20th, 2004, 2:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: athos20145Are u proud of Zapatero's decision to quit Iraq (unsuprisingly backed by Prodi)?Were you proud of Aznar's decision to send troops to Iraq when 80% of Spanish people opposed the war (unsurprisingly backed by the corrupted Berlusconi)?
Last edited by doubleV on April 19th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flymuse
Posts: 151
Joined: December 11th, 2003, 11:25 pm

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April 20th, 2004, 3:03 pm

The problem for Spain now is that "the Spanish government's word " cannot be trusted. But then again, which is more important: a govt's word to the world or it's word to the people.
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