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LongTheta
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 6:06 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 8:12 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: AaronShould we eliminate all foreign words in English, so no one will be exposed to foreign languages?If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for all of us, Aaron.(Not so sure who said that, but I'm sure it was a US Senator).
 
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Graeme
Posts: 476
Joined: April 25th, 2003, 5:47 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 8:16 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: LongThetaQuoteOriginally posted by: balajiUnfortunately i have had bad math profs. Therefore it has been a long, laborious (but infinitely enjoyable) self education. Not many speak the language of math with finesse, do they? Somehow it gets the image of a 'technical subject' rather than art. I equate Math to a poetic language like Sanskrit. Every theorem is like a poem. Great works are like literary master pieces. And mathematicians are like poets. And how were you as a student? Did you give 'em hell? Told 'em what you thought of them? One of the reasons why the better mathematicians (and anyone who can) quit teaching and go and do anything else is the combination of abusive, unforgiving students and the unreasonable, unrealistic demands of the administrators.You forgot to mention the great pay.
 
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LongTheta
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 6:06 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 10:03 am

Low pay is a problem, because it enforces the impression that people get into teaching as a last resort, having failed to do anything else (which is a self fulfilling point of view).
 
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Aaron
Posts: 6433
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 3:46 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 1:28 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: LongThetaOne of the reasons why the better mathematicians (and anyone who can) quit teaching and go and do anything else is the combination of abusive, unforgiving students and the unreasonable, unrealistic demands of the administrators.I have taught and I have not. There are satisfactions both ways. In my opinion, the abusive, unforgiving students are both rare and easy to handle. The real discouragement is the absurdly low expectations of most students: both of themselves and the teacher. It's hard to put energy into a business when the consumers are willing to accept any product offered. It's the exceptions that keep you going.The root of the administrator problem, in the US at any rate, is that the product is terribly overpriced. This causes a cancerous growth of administration to soak up the excess profits and exclude competition. Supressing innovation is one side-effect of this.Even this I blame on low expectations. The University is the students and faculty. Period. Buildings and endowments are unnecessary, as are certifications, football teams and alumni reunions. If students and faculty acted that way, no one could boss them around. But they meekly accept the power of the corporation and its minions.
 
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balaji
Posts: 480
Joined: December 20th, 2003, 2:46 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 1:56 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: LongThetaQuoteOriginally posted by: balajiUnfortunately i have had bad math profs. Therefore it has been a long, laborious (but infinitely enjoyable) self education. Not many speak the language of math with finesse, do they? Somehow it gets the image of a 'technical subject' rather than art. IAnd how were you as a student? Did you give 'em hell? Told 'em what you thought of them? One of the reasons why the better mathematicians (and anyone who can) quit teaching and go and do anything else is the combination of abusive, unforgiving students and the unreasonable, unrealistic demands of the administrators.Abusive and unforgiving students are unthinkable in India, where teachers (however bad they are) are revered. By bad, I meant the ability to speak the language of math(not their unwillingness to teach or rudeness). In my opinion only few can do this. And not all of them teach. So there is some sort of vicious cycle.
 
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balaji
Posts: 480
Joined: December 20th, 2003, 2:46 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 2:00 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AaronQuoteOriginally posted by: LongTheta The University is the students and faculty. Period. Buildings and endowments are unnecessary, as are certifications, football teams and alumni reunions. If students and faculty acted that way, no one could boss them around. But they meekly accept the power of the corporation and its minions.Also should an university be rated based on placement %? In my opinion it shouldn't. An university doesn't exist solely for the purpose generating 'workers'. I wouldn't mind rating a polytechnic on placement%.
 
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Graeme
Posts: 476
Joined: April 25th, 2003, 5:47 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 5:12 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: LongThetaLow pay is a problem, because it enforces the impression that people get into teaching as a last resort, having failed to do anything else (which is a self fulfilling point of view).I think academia is often the first resort, until the burden of simply making ends meet - paying the basic bills, let alone having any extravagances - becomes too much.
 
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Aaron
Posts: 6433
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 3:46 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 7:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: balajishould an university be rated based on placement %? In my opinion it shouldn't. An university doesn't exist solely for the purpose generating 'workers'. I wouldn't mind rating a polytechnic on placement%.I blame this too on the overpricing. If parents have to mortgage their home to pay for four years of private college, they will understandably demand a reasonably sure and short payback period. Without the placement rate you can't charge the tuition, so education is sacrificed to job skills.At a lower educational level there is a demand from taxpayers that schools teach the basics. In this context "basics" means the rudimentary literacy and numeracy required to do menial jobs. So students have hours of pointless homework and drill to prepare for mind-numbingly tedious exams.
 
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gjlipman
Posts: 1102
Joined: May 20th, 2002, 9:13 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 9:40 pm

Just back on the topic of tipping, I like the idea of tipping, so long as it voluntary. Here in Australia tipping certainly isn't expected, but if you get really good service or food, you tend to tip. We even have a restaurant here where the whole meal price is like a tip - you eat your meal, and then you pay them what you think it was worth. From what I understand, the restaurant is doing very well (financially, and not just in terms of number of customers).
 
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LongTheta
Posts: 1504
Joined: August 3rd, 2003, 6:06 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 10:27 pm

My concern about abolishing tipping altogether is that we may end with Air Lauda type service, where stewards throw the food trays on your lap
 
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frontOquant
Posts: 15
Joined: March 19th, 2004, 10:51 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 25th, 2004, 11:58 pm

What pisses me off is the restaurant owner who demands 1.5-2% of total sales from the waiters and waitresses. My old boss during university made us all pay that, and he didn't even give it to the cooking staff as their tip. He kept it for himself and said it was for operational costs.
Last edited by frontOquant on April 25th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Mela
Posts: 220
Joined: May 13th, 2003, 9:29 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 26th, 2004, 7:43 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaTipping should be abolished, taxes should be abolished, Mondays should be abolished, san francisko should be abolished. What we need instead all of it is to get a charter flight for wilmott community to Stockholm to socialize with nice, long-legged blond swedish waitresses who like what they do so much, they'd do it for free. I think if i run on this program for a president of wilmott forum, i might win.Throw in a few buff swedish guys and I'd vote for you.
 
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DominicConnor
Posts: 11684
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 26th, 2004, 8:16 am

It seems to me that the logical way to fund universities in the long term is by a levy upon the lifetime income of their alumni.This would provide an incentive for "value add", and not discriminate against those kids from poorer backgrounds.
 
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Energetic
Posts: 600
Joined: March 27th, 2002, 6:03 pm

Should tipping be abolished?

April 26th, 2004, 2:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DCFCThe average actor earns less than the average waiterIn America, it's the same person.Why not tip teachers, staff in supermarkets, and colleagues at work. Now that would be fun... Tipping only exists because it is a tax dodge.In America, we tip people who perform law-wage service jobs. The idea is to give them an incentive to work more diligently. If it were only a matter of losing salary these people (most notably waiters) would not care much about being fired. The cafe across the street pays the same $6/hr and is always hiring. It makes sense for a waiter to work his way up to a more classy place where the tips volume is greater. The way to stay there is, well, to be friendly to the customers.
 
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millhouse
Posts: 99
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Should tipping be abolished?

April 29th, 2004, 6:31 pm

what about cow-tipping?
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