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daveangel
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June 8th, 2016, 3:36 pm

Sharapova gets 2 year ban
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ppauper
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June 8th, 2016, 4:02 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: daveangelSharapova gets 2 year banI'm surprised, I thought they'd backed off (not just for sharapova, for everyone) because meldonium stay in the system for a while so someone could have been taking it before it was banned and then fail a test after the ban was brought in.I think it's just one of many pharmaceuticals that have performance enhancing side effects, and it's probably not a coincidence that they chose to ban drugs that russians use
 
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ppauper
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June 8th, 2016, 4:06 pm

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ThinkDifferent
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June 8th, 2016, 8:03 pm

can anyone explain to me why meldonium is banned? I mean, what are the harmful side effects?
 
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ThinkDifferent
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June 8th, 2016, 8:07 pm

http://www.runnersworld.com/performance ... ldonium"We haven't approved it here in the United States because we simply do not know enough about the drug..."right. so, they don't know enough about the drug, but they do put it on the list of banned substances.
Last edited by ThinkDifferent on June 7th, 2016, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ppauper
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June 8th, 2016, 9:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentcan anyone explain to me why meldonium is banned? I mean, what are the harmful side effects?It's not a case of it necessarily having harmful side effects, rather that it is alleged to be "performance enhancing"from wikiQuoteAs a doping drug, Meldonium is used to enhance athletic performance by increasing the overall endurance of the athlete and speeding up their recovery time after a strenuous workout. This helps them with endurance in that they can train for a longer amount of time without needing breaks in between. They also have decreased recovery time, which means that they can return to competition or practice sooner without feeling as sore or tired as they would have without the assistance of the drug.the creator of the drug disagrees, and (again from wiki)QuoteAccording to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise. It's my understanding that if an athlete has a legitimate medical need for a banned drug, they can be given a medical exemption by the doping authoritiesWhy isn't it available in the US? >> "We haven't approved it here in the United States because we simply do not know enough about the drug..."that's very oddly worded.For it to be available in the US, it has to be approved by the FDA, which requires clinical trials (not sure if there's any reciprocal arrangements with other countries, so that a clinical trial in say Germany or Canada would suffice) The trial would be make sure that the drug works is effective to treat whatever condition it is supposed to treat, and doesn't have horrible side effectsI suspect that we in the west have different drugs with for the health problems meldonium is supposed to treat If the russian drug (meldonium) is on the banned list, but the western counterpart is not, then that would be bias against the russians.I've got a suspicion that an awful lot of drug have performance enhancing effectsThere used to be a joke that virtually every elite Canadian triathlete claimed to have asthma, because the steroid used in inhalers is also performance-enhancing.And no doubt some of them really do have asthma, but virtually all of them?
 
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Traden4Alpha
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June 8th, 2016, 10:31 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentcan anyone explain to me why meldonium is banned? I mean, what are the harmful side effects?It's not a case of it necessarily having harmful side effects, rather that it is alleged to be "performance enhancing"from wikiQuoteAs a doping drug, Meldonium is used to enhance athletic performance by increasing the overall endurance of the athlete and speeding up their recovery time after a strenuous workout. This helps them with endurance in that they can train for a longer amount of time without needing breaks in between. They also have decreased recovery time, which means that they can return to competition or practice sooner without feeling as sore or tired as they would have without the assistance of the drug.the creator of the drug disagrees, and (again from wiki)QuoteAccording to him, meldonium does not enhance athletic performance in any way, and was rather used by athletes to prevent damage to the heart and muscles caused by lack of oxygen during high-intensity exercise. It's my understanding that if an athlete has a legitimate medical need for a banned drug, they can be given a medical exemption by the doping authoritiesWhy isn't it available in the US? >> "We haven't approved it here in the United States because we simply do not know enough about the drug..."that's very oddly worded.For it to be available in the US, it has to be approved by the FDA, which requires clinical trials (not sure if there's any reciprocal arrangements with other countries, so that a clinical trial in say Germany or Canada would suffice) The trial would be make sure that the drug works is effective to treat whatever condition it is supposed to treat, and doesn't have horrible side effectsI suspect that we in the west have different drugs with for the health problems meldonium is supposed to treat If the russian drug (meldonium) is on the banned list, but the western counterpart is not, then that would be bias against the russians.I've got a suspicion that an awful lot of drug have performance enhancing effectsThere used to be a joke that virtually every elite Canadian triathlete claimed to have asthma, because the steroid used in inhalers is also performance-enhancing.And no doubt some of them really do have asthma, but virtually all of them?It's a real mess.What is the definition of "performance enhancing"? Clearly that category includes drugs one takes 15 minutes before the race and suddenly can run faster for longer. But what about drugs that have that effect over weeks, month, or years?And what is the definition of "legitimate medical need"? What if some people can naturally train harder and more often than others? Would a drug such as meldonium be a treatment for those who can't train as hard?As for the Canadians, I'd think than heavy training in very dry/cold winter air would be quite hard on the lungs (I know it is for me) and induce asthma or asthma-like problems.
 
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ppauper
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June 9th, 2016, 7:22 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaWhat is the definition of "performance enhancing"? Clearly that category includes drugs one takes 15 minutes before the race and suddenly can run faster for longer. But what about drugs that have that effect over weeks, month, or years?meldonium seems to be like that, and similar to what we used to call "distance steroids" which let you train harder and recover faster from workouts. That's considered performance enhancing.That's why they have "out of competition testing," otherwise people would use drugs like that and then stop before the olympics but still gain the benefits, and it's also why you see some of these ridiculous stories where the drug testers show up at an athlete's house and he/she hides and doesn't open the door and later claims that he/she didn't hear the doorbellAnd there are sports where being bigger helps, and again, you take (different) steroids to bulk up and stop taking them before competition so you retain the bulk, and again that's considered performance enhancing
 
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ThinkDifferent
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June 9th, 2016, 3:26 pm

but what is the point of prohibiting the use of a performance enhancing drug if it shows no adverse impact on health? e.g. steroids are banned since they obviously improve performance, but at the same time, if abused, they can have negative impact on health. meldonium was widely used as a medical drug for years in Russia. mainly by elderly people. and it is has zero to none side effects. why not banning creatine then, or amino acids supplements? they do help with recovery too.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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June 9th, 2016, 6:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentbut what is the point of prohibiting the use of a performance enhancing drug if it shows no adverse impact on health? e.g. steroids are banned since they obviously improve performance, but at the same time, if abused, they can have negative impact on health. meldonium was widely used as a medical drug for years in Russia. mainly by elderly people. and it is has zero to none side effects. why not banning creatine then, or amino acids supplements? they do help with recovery too.The FDA's stance is that meldonium has not been proven safe. Even widespread use without acute adverse effects doesn't constitute good evidence of safety. Without careful double-blind studies it's not possible to tell if a drug causes long-term damage or even if it does anything. Moreover, meldonium may be "safe" for a few weeks of use by people in the last years of their lives but unsafe for years of continual use by younger people.That said, I agree with you and would go even further. I'd let athletes take anything that want as long as they disclose it. The current rules seem hypocritical and nonuniform.If "adverse impact on health" is the standard for banning things, then most professional sports and the training regimens for those sports should be banned, too. Yet most societies seem to ignore the medical impacts of extreme and prolonged physical exercise in athletes. The strange thing is that labor safety regulations seem to ban excessive exertion in the workplace but don't protect athletes in their "workplace". It's all a bit hypocritical.If performance enhancing drugs are banned on fairness principles -- that only rich athletes can afford them -- then why not ban personal coaches, intensive medical monitoring, fancy nutrition, and all other training aids that enable well-financed athletes to enhance their performance?If we really want to see the frontiers of human performance, then let humans use their minds to create all manner of tools, medications, training systems, nutritional systems, etc. but also ensue these performance enhancing systems (and their effects) are documented.
 
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Cuchulainn
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June 9th, 2016, 6:52 pm

My judo trainer used to train 8 hours a day. That got him 2 gold medals (heavyweight + open categories) at the Munch Olympics. Nowadays??Four Russian Judo Wrestlers 'Test Positive For Meldonium'
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ppauper
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June 9th, 2016, 7:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentbut what is the point of prohibiting the use of a performance enhancing drug if it shows no adverse impact on health? e.g. steroids are banned since they obviously improve performance, but at the same time, if abused, they can have negative impact on health. meldonium was widely used as a medical drug for years in Russia. mainly by elderly people. and it is has zero to none side effects. why not banning creatine then, or amino acids supplements? they do help with recovery too.see section 9QuoteThe WADA Prohibited List endeavours to capture as many known substances and methods that satisfy any two of the following three criteria:1. Potential to enhance or enhances sports performance2. An actual or potential health risk to the athlete3. Use violates the spirit of sport (outlined in the Code)Substances or methods which mask the effect of prohibited substances are also prohibited. In addition, a substance which has not been approved for human use is likely to be prohibited as well.I'm with you on meldonium. I've got a strong suspicion that it's been banned mostly because it's used mostly by Russian athletes (and others from the former soviet block)
 
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ThinkDifferent
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June 9th, 2016, 9:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentbut what is the point of prohibiting the use of a performance enhancing drug if it shows no adverse impact on health? e.g. steroids are banned since they obviously improve performance, but at the same time, if abused, they can have negative impact on health. meldonium was widely used as a medical drug for years in Russia. mainly by elderly people. and it is has zero to none side effects. why not banning creatine then, or amino acids supplements? they do help with recovery too.The FDA's stance is that meldonium has not been proven safe. Even widespread use without acute adverse effects doesn't constitute good evidence of safety. Without careful double-blind studies it's not possible to tell if a drug causes long-term damage or even if it does anything. Moreover, meldonium may be "safe" for a few weeks of use by people in the last years of their lives but unsafe for years of continual use by younger people.That said, I agree with you and would go even further. I'd let athletes take anything that want as long as they disclose it. The current rules seem hypocritical and nonuniform.well it was almost the case in the 70s or 80s. Say in strength sports (e.g. weightlifting), all one had to do is to stop taking testosterone propionate or dianabol a couple of weeks before the competition to pass the drug testing. Why do you think they had to scrap all old records by changing the weight classes? because once the drug testing got more advanced (i.e. longer detection times) old records got almost unachievable. They used the same trick (new weight classes) in powerlifting (not an Olympic sport). There was an mixed martial arts promotion in Japan called PRIDE. No drug testing of any kind. That was the best show ever. People juiced to the gills haha But I can't recall anyone dying there from the substance abuse. Now we have UFC in the US. They ban people for god damn marijuana use.
 
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ThinkDifferent
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June 9th, 2016, 9:43 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnMy judo trainer used to train 8 hours a day. That got him 2 gold medals (heavyweight + open categories) at the Munch Olympics. Nowadays??Four Russian Judo Wrestlers 'Test Positive For Meldonium' I hope u being sarcastic. I can ask my folks to buy some meldonium and send it over to you. See how it improves your kata guruma technique :)
 
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katastrofa
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June 9th, 2016, 10:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ThinkDifferentbut what is the point of prohibiting the use of a performance enhancing drug if it shows no adverse impact on health? e.g. steroids are banned since they obviously improve performance, but at the same time, if abused, they can have negative impact on health. meldonium was widely used as a medical drug for years in Russia. mainly by elderly people. and it is has zero to none side effects. why not banning creatine then, or amino acids supplements? they do help with recovery too.There are several obvious deterrents. Clinical trails may be very expensive, but certainly not too expensive for big pharma. The biggest challenge is gaining all approvals (from several Vogon commissions) for the trials, especially in the current atmosphere created by not less affluent anti-drug charity business (they profit from badmouthing Mary Jane). Nevertheless, I think this is the best way to introduce any new substance to the market (failures are too costly to take risks, vide thalidomide). Besides, other big players, such as tobacco and alcohol industry, lobby against the potential competition.Creatine is naturally produced in our bodies, hence it's a supplement, not a drug (the policies are different: they don't need to be proven safe to be approved, but proven unsafe to be banned). BTW, last time I checked there was no proper statistical or clinical evidence of creatine effectiveness.
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