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Paul
Posts: 10432
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

So if you are in the US, young and poor then don’t seek treatment?

Is there any Democrat who wants to take US healthcare out of the Middle Ages but without sending the rest of the economy back there?

Collector
Topic Author
Posts: 4563
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

a small cut in "defense" (attack) budget could go a long way for better health care, but then Democrats think every other Democrat candidate and all republican candidates are Russian spies, so unlikely it will happen any time soon.

Hillary claimed Tulsi (the Hawaii candidate) is russian asset.
Mike indicates Sanders is in the pocket of the russians.
And they know Trump is in the pocket of the russians.

are they served (Swedish absolute) vodka before they speak or what ?  And the show goes on!
Last edited by Collector on February 26th, 2020, 6:25 pm, edited 6 times in total.

trackstar
Posts: 27281
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

So if you are in the US, young and poor then don’t seek treatment?

Is there any Democrat who wants to take US healthcare out of the Middle Ages but without sending the rest of the economy back there?
Well two points:

1) In typical US healthcare coverage, there is copay as you note, but there are also "deductibles."

Copay, is clearly your share of your own medical bill, with the insurance covering the rest.
A deductible is the amount you pay on your own, before insurance will kick in for certain types of situations.

So, you might have a copay of $25, for example, for a routine check up with your GP (general doctor), with insurance covering the rest. But if you needed an X-ray of your wrist due to a riding accident, you might have to cover 100% of that until all your medical expenses reached your deductible limit of, for example,$5,000.

The more you are willing to pay in insurance premiums, the lower your deductible might be, but it's all very complicated and expensive.

2) Why trade off defense expenditures for disease offense expenditures?  We have mastered the art of deficit spending over many decades.
And we have a huge ATM machine called the US Treasury.  ; )

Obviously just kidding.  But of greater concern right now is actually the impact on businesses and the perceived impact as seen in the stock market.

Opportunities for some (buy on the dips, gold looks good, bond yield curve dynamics?), but headaches for others....
Last edited by trackstar on February 26th, 2020, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bearish
Posts: 5425
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

So if you are in the US, young and poor then don’t seek treatment?

Is there any Democrat who wants to take US healthcare out of the Middle Ages but without sending the rest of the economy back there?
Young and uninsured would be the people who may just want to quietly self quarantine. If you are sufficiently poor you will get a bill for the treatment, but there is only so much they can do to make you pay it.

All the remaining “moderate” Democratic presidential candidates (i.e. other than Sanders and Warren) have in their platform a public program to exist alongside private health insurance. Buttigieg is on record that he views this as a transitional state, whereas the others, for one reason or another, see it as a long term thing. Aside from the cost argument against Medicare-for-all, there is also the nagging fact that some 150 million Americans are pretty happy with their current employment based coverage. If you supplement it with a public option that provides a safety net that can catch you if you lose your job (and cover the self employed, gig economy workers, entrepreneurs, etc.), you probably have a plan that has a much broader appeal, given the starting point. The result will still suffer from a totally insane amount of bureaucracy between health care providers and insurance companies, though, so will remain very expensive. I wouldn’t be surprised if the administrative overhead cost in US private healthcare is ten times that of Norwegian public healthcare (for a random example where I’ve had some experience).

Cuchulainn
Posts: 61537
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Those masks seem to be useless?
http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl

Every Time We Teach a Child Something, We Keep Him from Inventing It Himself
Jean Piaget

trackstar
Posts: 27281
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Those masks seem to be useless?
Not all masks are useless - see Masks and N95 Respirators - FDA US, but without goggles, gloves (at least), and really a whole protective suit, you are not "safe."

And even then, if you are exposed all day, every day, as health care workers in China have been, it is still very risky.

Imagine - you have to take the suit off each day and put on a new one (hopefully new anyway) the next day. Great precision needed here, even more than Paul would need with his full Scottish dress.

BTW: all kinds of masks are for sale on eBay now at grossly inflated prices.
Last edited by trackstar on February 26th, 2020, 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cuchulainn
Posts: 61537
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

I talked with a young health worker recently, she said there where no reason to worry, in general only old people above 50 would be severely affected. So everyone here can relax!
Speak for yourself!
http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl

Every Time We Teach a Child Something, We Keep Him from Inventing It Himself
Jean Piaget

Collector
Topic Author
Posts: 4563
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

yes what I wanted to tell her, but I was polite and understood i was not 19 anymore.

Paul
Posts: 10432
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Unfortunately I know too well how US healthcare “works” (as a customer)!

If Coronavirus gets as bad as some people say then the US government is going to have to come up with a more efficient/affordable system than the bloated monstrosity they have now. Unless they are on a Platinum coverage people won’t bother seeing a doctor if there’s only a tiny chance of them dying, and why would they self quarantine?!! They’ll go to work as usual. Or insurance companies collapse as pharmaceutical companies/doctors come up with more and more expensive tests! (A US medical profession speciality!) Never waste a good epidemic! At least in China they have mechanisms for dealing with the masses! Albeit rather unpleasant mechanisms.

trackstar
Posts: 27281
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Time to relax with a cup of tea. Yorkshire or otherwise.

And I hope all of you are pumping iron and hiking, whether through country forests or even Hyde Park!

I visited several frozen waterfalls over the weekend in New Hampshire - beautiful!
Last edited by trackstar on February 27th, 2020, 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

Collector
Topic Author
Posts: 4563
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

will indeed be interesting to see how US, and also Europe handle this compared to China, and the result of it. The living will see! Norway just confirmed their first case also, and it will not be the last!

Paul
Posts: 10432
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

It looks like this could be the solution to climate change, Iran and Brexit. Something for everyone.

Collector
Topic Author
Posts: 4563
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Coronavirus outbreak slashes China carbon emissions
"China's carbon emissions have dropped by least 100 million metric tonnes over the past two weeks, according to a study published on Wednesday by the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (CREA) in Finland."

Collector
Topic Author
Posts: 4563
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

The outbreak has now hit nearly every continent. It has not yet reached Antarctica.
Screen Shot 2020-02-26 at 10.02.50 PM.png (93.84 KiB) Viewed 95 times

Paul
Posts: 10432
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

### Re: How good or bad are the pandemic warning models?

Every country with one exception wants its population to be healthy. That exception is the US for which so much of its economy is linked to having an optimal number of optimally ill people. There are teams of people in the US busily calculating when is the optimal time to release an optimal cure for the maximum profit.