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Marsden
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 12:26 pm

QuoteQais al-Salman stood meekly beside the vehicle. He was carrying his Danish passport, Danish driving licence and medical records.But let him tell his own story. "A civilian car came up with American soldiers in it. Then more soldiers in military vehicles. I told them I didn't understand what had happened, that I was a scientific researcher. But they made me lie down in the street, tied my arms behind me with plastic-and-steel cuffs and tied up my feet and put me in one of their vehicles."The next bit of his story carries implications for our own journalistic profession. "After 10 minutes in the vehicle, I was taken out again. There were journalists with cameras. The Americans untied me, then made me lie on the road again. Then, in front of the cameras, they tied my hands and feet all over again and put me back in the vehicle."From Robert Fisk, "The Ugly Truth Of America's Camp Cropper, A Story To Shame Us All," The Independent.
Last edited by Marsden on July 23rd, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 12:49 pm

Robert Fisk, The wonderful satirist Mark Steyn [www.marksteyn.com] has written some wonderful words on the incomparableChicken Little of journalism, Robert Fisk. He wrote some truly hilarious columns on Afghanistan and Iraq.
 
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Marsden
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 12:58 pm

Hamilton, Robert Fisk is a hundred times the man that you or Mark Steyn can ever hope to be. He is so far beyond you and your ilk that it is no surprise that the most that you can come up with to say about him (in your pathological need to say something about everything, regardless that your comments will serve mostly to show what a shallow and befuddled old men you are) is babbling mockery.Regards,Marsden.
 
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Omar
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 12:59 pm

I just saw an issue of Time magazine from last June. The cover story was on the large number of Evangelists who are either standing in line to be sent the Middle East to convert muslims, or are already there. I knew that Billy Graham's son (Franklin?) was actively into that since quite sometime, but I didn't realise that so many other organisations are involved.This is terrible. We are talking major silliness here. Invading and occupying a country can always be justified/motivated by dubious military and/or moral reasons ("They have WMD, we are freeing the oppressed"). But organised conversions are absolutely not on, and will lead to complete loss of American/Western credibility in the region. The worst thing that the US can do at this stage is to encourage and/or tolerate Evangelists in the Middle East. But that's exactly what the Bush administration is doing.
 
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Marsden
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 1:08 pm

Omar --I remember reading somewhere of a fifty-year mission to Saudi Arabia that had managed to convert all of five individuals to Christianity. Still, it's a better use of church money than helping to send Russian Jews into the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories!
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 1:09 pm

The worst thing that the US can do at this stage is to encourage and/or tolerate Evangelists in the Middle East. Please describe for the crowd what happens to those who evangelize currently in Saudi Arabia.
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 1:11 pm

babbling mockeryand other than derision and an unsupported assertion of your ideology, what do you support your opinion with?
 
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Omar
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 1:17 pm

Quote Still, it's a better use of church money than helping to send Russian Jews into the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories!I fully agree. I fully agree. It also takes their minds off other activities. Children will feel safer. Much safer.
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 2:43 pm

I remember reading somewhere of a fifty-year mission to Saudi Arabia that had managed to convert all of five individuals to Christianity. To confirm this, take a Bible in hand, walk up to a Saudi Wahabbi and attempt to convert him. Report back to us on the response. Don't lose your head over it.
 
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DominicConnor
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 24th, 2003, 3:38 pm

This is terrible. We are talking major silliness here. Invading and occupying a country can always be justified/motivated by dubious military and/or moral reasons ("They have WMD, we are freeing the oppressed"). But organised conversions are absolutely not on, and will lead to complete loss of American/Western credibility in the regionEven if they keep their pants tied up, look at the fate of US/UK soldiers in Iraq. These are fit armed men who go around in gangs and yet we're losing more than one a day.Personally, I would donate money for sending evangelists to Iraq.Will improve the gene pool and make our children safer.They will die, and fail in their task.
 
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slym
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 29th, 2003, 7:09 am

QuoteWill improve the gene pool and make our children safer.They will die, and fail in their task.LOL. ;-]ps : thanx dcfc, you brought back my good mood !
 
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FDAXJihad
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 29th, 2003, 7:11 am

Does anyone still remember, when like in the 90s, Bill Clinton provided 1.3 billion USD to the Columbian army to fight the FARC guerillas, while at the same time, the CIA sold the FARC 10,000s of AK-47 assault rifles out of Jordania? I wonder if the CIA is doing the same thing at the moment. Probably.
Last edited by FDAXJihad on July 28th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DominicConnor
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 29th, 2003, 12:04 pm

ps : thanx dcfc, you brought back my good mood !Glad to be of service American evangelists roam 70% of the world already. They don't really seem to have much success. I think the idea that evangelicals could convert Iraqis in large numbers is so bizarre that the few Iraqis who hear of it won't bother to be offended. If I was a religious leader I would encourage them to come along to my flock so they could laugh at them. In Britain, comedians make good material out of their activities sexual and otherwise. Mormons have suffered a lot from this.However the whole point of religious tolerance is not allowing people to say vague, generenally nice things like "be nice to each other, don't steal, violence is bad". Tolerance is allowing groups who you utterly hate to say their crap. Iraqis are going to have to learn you don't stone people for believing different things. To their credit, they don't do this much anyway, so there is a short and easy path to that goal.
 
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Man
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 29th, 2003, 12:16 pm

Not to be too mean to the evangelical types, but that is such a beautiful idea to ship them overseas. That way, the people who meet these Americans, gather some opinion that Americans are religious and good people (because most of the low-level evangelical types are good people). As well, if they get killed off, no real loss of productive persons.
 
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Omar
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

July 30th, 2003, 12:19 am

Quote most of the low-level evangelical types are good people Not in my experience. In my experience, they are mean, vicious, patronising, low IQ, self-satisfied bastards. They talk in a certain way, and act in a certain way, and you think "Oh, such lovely people", but they are willing to witness, and even take part in acts of extreme emotional violence, without batting an eyelid. Okay, so they will not engage in acts of physical violence, but there was a time when they did, and there is no doubt im mind that, circumstances allow, they would do it again. No man is more dangerous than a man who whole heartedly believes that God is on his side, that all his actions are guided by divine intervention, and that all his sins are forgiven. I'm talking out of personal experience (and I don't mean discussions on the internet), and I claim that what I say goes for evangelical types of all religions, and at all levels.
Last edited by Omar on July 29th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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