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Amin
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 5:48 pm

This is about 73 war. Arabs took Israel by surprise. Israel called America for help. Arabs say that American pilots fought alongside Israeli air force. On October 12, Nixon ordered an emergency airlift to Israel. Cargo planes carrying spare parts, tanks, bombs, and helicopters flew roundthe clock to Israel via bases in the Azores. 22,000 tons of equipment were transported to Israel by air and sea. The airlift alone involved 566 flights. To pay for this infusion of weapons, Nixon asked Congress for and received $2.2 billion in emergency aid for Israel.Now I do not want a heated debate about this issue but just want to say that if you want to know the reason, this is the one. Arabs do not care about American porn movies or America's greatness. Trust me they do not give a damn. They care because it hurts them. Millions have been evicted from their homes and blame America for that.
 
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zerdna
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 6:17 pm

well, you not gonna get a heated debate from me. Clearly, US has supported Israel with weapons and financial aid big time. Soviet Union supplied Arab nations big time. There is no question about that. However, i think you went from QuoteAmerican armies fought Arabs alongside Israeli Army in Arab Israeli wars. to QuoteArabs say that American pilots fought alongside Israeli air force. So which is which? Was it few pilots or was it armies? Did US fight alongside Israel or Arabs say they did? Because Arabs say many things I don't want to argue with, like for example that Iraq won the first war in the Gulf.
 
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Amin
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 6:47 pm

Zerdna, it was American pilots. One won't think there will be American foot soldiers. I do not want to argue over it. You can take it the way it pleases you. Now I studied in America for a long time and really came to like this country. America truly inspired me in many ways and I would always want it to stay a great country. I would want Americans to see clearly why a group of people hates them. It is certainly not that America is a democratic country and its people are free. Nobody cares. Everybody has its own greater problems but for some people it starts to matter since they see a link to why their own freedoms are compromised because of American foreign policies etc.I do not want to look at the past and argue over who did what except to know the reasons of why something happened. It will be nice if everybody looks up to the future and wants to make it as great as possible. I truly salute the Late slain Israeli Prime Minister who went out of the way to make peace with Arabs. And I really like Collin Powell on this matter and hope he stays for another term.I do hope that America is successful on a fair settlement of peace plan and Israelis and Arabs live side by side peacefully. Really the people who read grander things into these issues like clashes of civilizations or religions do not have any idea of what is going on.
 
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SanFranCA2002
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 8:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AminAmerican armies fought Arabs alongside Israeli Army in Arab Israeli wars.You state that the US fought in the 73 war, and then later back off and say you don't want to discuss the details? There were no US ground forces, nor US fighter pilots. The war was, as I recall, about two weeks long and this airlift you discuss did not start until only one week was remaining. The supplies were not a factor except to allow Israel to commit resources that it otherwise would have held for reserves. In addition, you mention the US was blindly favoring one side. As you should recall, this was during the height of the cold war between the US/USSR and the US support for Israel was greatly influenced by the USSR support of Egypt.
 
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cekpet
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 9:00 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Beans How come planes don't smash into the eiffel tower, where nudie flicks are on tv every single night?While I fail to see the connection between porn and terrorism, it's well known that planes dont smash into Eiffel tower because of good work of Frenchanti-terrorism units:http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/635213.asp?cp1=1So looks like the French have you beaten not only when it comes to sex
Last edited by cekpet on August 3rd, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Amin
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 9:29 pm

S2002,I want you to get a good picture of the other side of the story. America supported Israel very big time and the end result was that Israel ended up capturing a lot of Arab territory with large Palestinian Arab population. This happened in 1967 war that Israel initiated. But nobody cared about it except for probably Arabs. For the vanquished person, it does not matter if USSR is helping Arabs or America is helping Israel in return except that he sees that large part of his suffering and humiliation comes from "big time help from America".I am just trying to get the message across why Arabs do not like America. So if you want to get the perspective and find it useful, I am happy.As I earlier said, some heroes like Yitzhak Rabin also came along and should be mentioned with respect. But if you want to find someone to bicker with, pls find someone else.
 
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SanFranCA2002
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 9:43 pm

No, I am not trying to bicker and did not intend it as such. I just think that it is not reasonable to accuse the US of being directly involved in a war that it was not directly involved in. And for your information, if you have followed previous discussions you would know I have much sympathy for the Palestinian view. However, I don't support incorrect statements by either side.
 
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Amin
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 10:03 pm

S2002,Well you have to agree with me here that US help for Israel was not just soviet neutralization. In fact, Israel was considered invincible among Arabs(prior to 73 war) thanks to generous American military help and the world knew it. Israel initiated 1967 war with the covert purpose of gaining territory that it hold to this day and might never cede. Again the point I am trying to come across is that if you think this was all fair on America's side this would not be true. At some point long ago, America should have asked Israel to return the occupied territories to its people. They(Arabs) believe that the wrong they have been done is a good part due to America.But again I do not want to be an Israel basher and want to look into the future and I hope that, in the future, Israelis and Palestinians live peacefully as separate states next to each other. I also hope that a peaceful and just resolution of the conflict removes all resentments about Americans from Arab minds.
 
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SanFranCA2002
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 4th, 2003, 10:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AminBut again I do not want to be an Israel basher and want to look into the future .....Why not? What a mess. There is much contemptable behavior on both and all sides and you should probably be critical of all parties involved. They all deserve it. Also you are more optimistic than I am about a solution. As Kissinger stated, there are times in international politics where there really is no position that would be considered a reasonable compromise by both sides.
 
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Omar
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 12:17 am

I think, if one wishes to identify one single burning issue in the Arab/Israeli conflict, then that would be the settlements. This is a very difficult issue for the Israelis themselves, and my Israeli friends on this forum, may correct me if I'm wrong. The settlers are people who typically choose a place, even a parking lot, right in the inner city of a completely Palestinian township, in the heart of the West Bank, like Hebron, and decide that they will build a settlement right there, and live in it forever.The next thing you know is that the Israeli army moves in, surrounds the place with fences, squeezes the native Arabs out of the way, gives ample room to the settlers, and guarrantees their safety on a 24 hour a day basis. So you end up with some very fancy housings, with parks and schools and facilities, planted on native Arab land, surrounded by high fences, protected by one of the most powerful armies in the world, and connected to the main land by modern highways that only the settlers can use. Meanwhile, the native owners of the land, live in abject poverty, looking at the settlers through fences. If situations like the above do not inflame an otherwise perfectly containable situation, what does?And you talk to certain Israelis, and they look you straight in the eyes and they say "God gave us this land 3,500 years ago". If this is not insanity, what is? Then there comes the American President and his cabinet, and they mumble something about the settlements, but otherwise really don't do anything about the situation, and pledge complete and unwavering support for the state of Israel, and everyone feels so surprised that the Arabs feel angry, oppressed and betrayed.And when someone ties explosives around his body, and does something completely horrible, everyone is so surprised.
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 2:42 am

The devil is in the interpretation of what the rules are, and who they apply to. Were the crusaders bad men? If not, why did they engage in acts of extreme violence and bloodshed?A personal favorite of mine are the history of the crusades. Please state the incidents you refer to and the sources for your references so that we may discuss. Western Christendom fought wars against Muslims. If memory serves, Islam was expanding and Christendom was contracting.
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 2:57 am

And when someone ties explosives around his body, and does something completely horrible, everyone is so surprised. Odd. The Australian Aborigines whom you so passionately defended a while back, "traumatized for life" if I recall your phrase, don't self detonate, yet the Palestinians do. Why is that?
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 3:02 am

In my experience, they are mean, vicious, patronising, low IQ, self-satisfied bastards. They talk in a certain way, and act in a certain way, and you think "Oh, such lovely people", but they are willing to witness, and even take part in acts of extreme emotional violence, without batting an eyelid. Wow. Omar has switched coffee brands again!Rather than attempt to point out the logical fallacy in Omar's statement [Material or Formal you be the judge], lets have some fun shall we?If you do a quick cut and paste on the entirety of his emotivist rant about Evangelicals, and substitute the words; Black, Jew, Muslim, etc, etc. you may get a glimmer about the hasty generalization that is occurring.But then again, perhaps not.<sigh>
 
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Hamilton
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An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 3:12 am

I'm sure Muslims would feel the same, if not worse about a Christian trying to convert them.I have no problem with anyone trying to evangelize someone else as long as they respectthat person's freedom of conscience. However, since you asked, and since Islam and Christianityare the 2 largest proselytyzing religions, how do you "feel" about Muslims attempting toconvert Christians or any non-Muslim? What methods are in and out of bounds?
 
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Man
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Joined: June 27th, 2002, 4:39 pm

An Annecdotal Summary of the Occupation of Iraq

August 5th, 2003, 3:30 am

Amin,This is the problem:"I am just trying to get the message across why Arabs do not like America. "Most Americans don't care. Most are like Beavis or Trevor, and can not figure (or do not care enough) out the difference between Arab and Muslim, and commonly use racial slurs like "towel head." Using slurs is just a way of enflaming others, it serves no purpose in getting closer to solutions.
Last edited by Man on August 4th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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