SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

chiral3
Topic Author
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

needless bureaucracy

does anyone ever have to deal with 6 sigma types out there? I would assume that only those of you that exist in larger orginizations do. I have to deal with that from time-to-time, and I think that the idea makes sense when you are coordinating different areas (IT, Risk, middle office,...) so that there isn't confusion. But then there is just useless bureaucracy - useless middle management types with their cookie cutters attaching -ology and -ality to every possible word, making and defining processes of processes of processes so that they can "invoke the new functionality in the methodology".... This shit drives me nuts. Like I said, I see the need in large orginizations, but why the f&*k did you get an education if your work is nothing but templates and flow charts - monkeys can do that, and they don't need six figures.Dunno, just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or similar experiences. I would assume, since everyone here is well educated and imbibed with certain common senses, that these things irk you when there are just quicker, more efficient, more creative ways of doing business.

FDAXHunter
Posts: 3824
Joined: November 5th, 2002, 4:08 pm

needless bureaucracy

Well, I deal more with 6 sigma moves than 6 sigma people, but I personally think that all this MBA bullshit is totally opposed to doing clean, efficient business. For one thing, I completely agree with you that their good points are common sense anyway and the rest is just ridiculous.Take'em out the back and shoot them, they're not contributing anything. Just inflating costs and hierarchies.Did you know that since the railroads got privatized in England, the number of managerial positions increased five-fold, whereas operations remaind the same or dropped?That was probably some six sigma dude creating a whole bunch of new interfaces, between the kitchen staff and the railroad engineers.*rant, rant, rant*Mahlerian was right....

andym
Posts: 805
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

needless bureaucracy

FT on Thursdays has a great column: Martin Lukes@ A-b Glöbãl, which beautifully skewers this type of pseudomanagement BS.

chiral3
Topic Author
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

needless bureaucracy

QuoteWell, I deal more with 6 sigma moves than 6 sigma peopleQuoteFT on Thursdays has a great column: Martin Lukes@ A-b Glöbãl, Yeah, that is good stuff, although the first time that I read it I was scratching my head.MBA, now that is something that you can amble into and slide by with. I think kr said it yesterday, that with liberal arts there is more room to bs your way through than with quant disiplines. I guess this is similar. These guys look down there nose at people who study hotel management and golf course maintanence, but it is the same thing. Someone told me the other day that when I present to one of our senior management types, that they prefer times new roman to the default arial that I used. HELLO! Do you want to make the fucking money or do you want pleasing fonts?

monkeyA
Posts: 541
Joined: December 4th, 2002, 10:25 am

needless bureaucracy

Martin Lukes is the only reason I read the FT ... apart from the Appointments section

kr
Posts: 1885
Joined: September 27th, 2002, 1:19 pm

needless bureaucracy

when my old boss moved to GE Capital, he told me, "Probably we could make good use of you over here, but you are forewarned that 6-sig is part of the religion... if you're gonna be a heretic then this is a problem." I can see _maybe_ a little use in the super-commoditized stuff where margins are thin, or in parts of IB where the deals are more-or-less cookiecutter but for the fact that big egos are involved. Once your target is easy and your method is established, it's all about figuring out how to squeeze margins, so if you're not going to get out of the business you might as well get it right within 6 sigmas. But you have to get the people to buy into the religion or it won't work. I agree that the 6-sig trainers probably don't do the homework that needs to be done and just spout the textbook stuff, which doesn't really give you an edge. I do believe that if you could take the egos out of the formulation you could do most of this business on very very low cost. You still don't want to look cheap, but that can be part of the 6-sigma stuff too... i.e. if you go for either Petrus or Gallo Jug Wine you're going to have profitability issues.On the other hand, most of the interesting stuff just changes way too fast and is far too unique. Yes, if you run a lot of offline models on spreadsheets then you are taking some big risks, but the cost of being systematic before you know what systematic really is is just way too high.

Johnny
Posts: 2431
Joined: October 18th, 2001, 3:26 pm

needless bureaucracy

"This shit drives me nuts."This is one of the main reasons why all the good people eventually leave large organisations and go and join or set up smaller/smarter/nimbler/glossier/sexier organisations.
Last edited by Johnny on July 26th, 2003, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mukuzani
Posts: 137
Joined: March 12th, 2002, 3:59 am

needless bureaucracy

QuoteOriginally posted by: FDAXHunterWell, I deal more with 6 sigma moves than 6 sigma people, but I personally think that all this MBA bullshit is totally opposed to doing clean, efficient business. For one thing, I completely agree with you that their good points are common sense anyway and the rest is just ridiculous.Take'em out the back and shoot them, they're not contributing anything. Just inflating costs and hierarchies.Did you know that since the railroads got privatized in England, the number of managerial positions increased five-fold, whereas operations remaind the same or dropped?That was probably some six sigma dude creating a whole bunch of new interfaces, between the kitchen staff and the railroad engineers.*rant, rant, rant*Mahlerian was right....Just another proof of Parkinson's Lawhttp://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/ ... ce&s=books

chiral3
Topic Author
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

needless bureaucracy

QuoteThis is one of the main reasons why all the good people eventually leave large organisations and go and join or set up smaller/smarter/nimbler/glossier/sexier organisations.Yeah, I'm ready to leave. Let's start up together. We can get some people from the forum and scrawl our mission statement on a bar napkin.

WaaghBakri
Posts: 732
Joined: March 21st, 2002, 4:07 am

needless bureaucracy

This shit drives me nuts.It drove me nuts too - useless meetings, fancy powerpoints always with "what needs to be done", "where we are" ...blah blah blah BLAH!! And, the useless reports!! Massive rehash jobs (pluck from here & pluck from there). But then after a while my natural defenses stepped in, and I but naturally dozed off at the meetings (boy, isn't it embarassing to have your head flop suddenly, and you look up with bloodshot eyes wondering whether you were snoring -- ) A refreshing afternoon siesta, I suppose.......'Twas a well paying but boring job, flex hours, come-go as you felt, work from home, my boss flew in once every few months and I filled him in, almost heaven on earth.....but this life was slipping by silently & pointlessly.....what to do? Walked up one day and quit ......

WaaghBakri
Posts: 732
Joined: March 21st, 2002, 4:07 am

needless bureaucracy

And, please don't mention the word "metrics", I'm still allergic to it......

chiral3
Topic Author
Posts: 1722
Joined: November 11th, 2002, 7:30 pm

needless bureaucracy

Quotebut this life was slipping by silently & pointlessly.....what to do?Yeah, I would like to maybe make it a year, and then go back to a small firm, or maybe do some subsistence farming, or live off yak dong in the karakoram, or play guitar at penn station....QuoteAnd, please don't mention the word "metrics", I'm still allergic to it......Oh yeah, I forgot that one. "once the new metrics are applied to the methodology we'll increase the scope of the functionality...." "The only thing that is increasing in scope is your waistline and your ego" I think that Jack Welch is a locker room jocko shitbag. Putting him in the motivational circuit now at companies is ridiculous. Neutron Jack's influence (oh, and by the way, any scientifically oriented person shouldn't get the nickname for his firing sprees) is extending meetings 1/2 hour with "Tell us about yourself" dribble. OK, so there is no blue book in HR that says "Control your destiny or someone else will", but his influence is there, right after the fish market video.In case nobody knows what I meant by the last sentence..... Seattle fish company, being the epitome and idealization of efficiency and happy, merry workers, put an instructional video out on how to be an efficient, well run, happy, profitable,....., company. Well, after the MBA buys the video for $3000, or some such number, Mr. Manager is delighted (should be horrified) to be treated to 90 minutes of guys throwing dead fish around a wet tarmac. Berdy, beerdy, beerdy - like the Swedish chef - occasional, in a non sexual, non-threatening manner, Jim will lob a grouper at Sandy, only to have a jocular laugh returned. Ah ha ha. What, and I can't expense a$200 bottle of wine?FISH SCHOOL
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