SERVING THE QUANTITATIVE FINANCE COMMUNITY

 
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smilemoreoften
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Joined: November 22nd, 2011, 12:16 pm

How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 12:14 am

I'm currently doing an MSci in Computer Science and I'll be going into my final year in september.Coming from a CS background it seems very difficult to get into any other area than technology within an Investment Bank.I have little experience in the relevant maths and stats required to enter the quant field. However I was interested in opinions of what work within the finance industry a CS grad would be suited to outside of housekeeping IT.My problem is I don't want to get pigeon holed within Technology because I feel like I'll just end up writing CRUD code forever.I was thinking maybe something related to big data or machine learning, do these roles exist? How does one go about getting them?In terms of work experience so far; I have done an internship within the technology department of an investment bank. (full-time offer upon graduation)Any advice would be much appreciated.Also I'm trying to think up a relevant final year project to do so any ideas would be great. (portfolio optimisation is an option)
Last edited by smilemoreoften on July 16th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lexington
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 3:45 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: smilemoreoften However I was interested in opinions of what work within the finance industry a CS grad would be suited to outside of housekeeping IT.Human Resources
 
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Hansi
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 9:49 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: smilemoreoftenMy problem is I don't want to get pigeon holed within Technology because I feel like I'll just end up writing CRUD code forever.Straight out of school this is what you will most likely be doing because well it's needed and most people coming straight out of school don't know anything about working in a team (sure there are exceptions but I haven't met those guys yet) or working with different real world systems.Actually I think it might make sense to take about 1.5-2 years worth of work outside of banking (maybe software firm working for the financial industry) and escape the 'grad label' and get hired as a standard developer or even a contractor afterwards, somewhat less likely to getting levied with a bunch of legacy crap that way.Also might want to just think about staying a contractor for a few years, most of the IT devs I work with do that because it means more money for them given that the perm devs don't get a big bonus pool. At my workplace contractors are more likely to work on greenfield stuff but I've heard it's common to get them in to do legacy stuff at some places.
 
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ashkar
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 9:54 am

I agree with Hansi. Avoid grad roles in banks. Join a IT consultancy where you will learn high paying and interesting IT skills and the pay is comparable to banking. Banks will always hire people with specialist skills so you can always choose to join a bank after 4-5 years as a senior developer. You will actually be better off this way than 90% of IT grads in banks.
 
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rmax
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 10:14 am

Why do you want to work in banking? Probably other industries are more lucrative at present. I agree with Hansi - go somewhere that needs your skill-set and then when you are what banks need, you can move across (if you are interested in banking still). I work with a number of people whose experience was initially outside banking, but the skills they picked up were applicable and they moved across with ease.
 
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smilemoreoften
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 1:22 pm

Thanks for the responses.Join a IT consultancy where you will learn high paying and interesting IT skillsWhat do you consider to be the high paying and interesting IT skills at present? which consultancy firms would you recommend? (places like accenture?)Actually I think it might make sense to take about 1.5-2 years worth of work outside of banking (maybe software firm working for the financial industry)Any firms you would recommend?Why do you want to work in banking?I'm really not sure, I just went to some career fairs at my university and before I knew it I had an internship and shortly after a job offer.Probably other industries are more lucrative at present.Which industries?Are prop shops or hedge funds worth looking into?
Last edited by smilemoreoften on July 16th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ArthurDent
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 17th, 2013, 10:12 pm

Always go where your skillset is core component of how the revenue comes in.QuoteOriginally posted by: smilemoreoftenI have little experience in the relevant maths and stats required to enter the quant field.Why don't you fix that hole now while you are in school rather than getting stereotyped as IT for the rest of your life? If you don't want to do Math/Stat/Finance and value your sanity, go to a tech company not banking.
 
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capafan2
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 18th, 2013, 12:22 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: smilemoreoftenThanks for the responses.Join a IT consultancy where you will learn high paying and interesting IT skillsWhat do you consider to be the high paying and interesting IT skills at present? which consultancy firms would you recommend? (places like accenture?)Actually I think it might make sense to take about 1.5-2 years worth of work outside of banking (maybe software firm working for the financial industry)Any firms you would recommend?Why do you want to work in banking?I'm really not sure, I just went to some career fairs at my university and before I knew it I had an internship and shortly after a job offer.Probably other industries are more lucrative at present.Which industries?Are prop shops or hedge funds worth looking into?Consider going into Software Development companies. Or small consulting companies which do technology implementation projects. Big Data and Hadoop are hot currently. So you could consider going into those. Your skills will be really valued. As a fresh grad you have very little say in what work you will get. Hence working for a software company in product development or service development would give you a good exposure. Finance IT is soul draining working. Even if you start of in a good group eventually someone will suck life out of you. Or if you do not have other offers, take the finance job and keep looking. If you are in the USA, there are many good startups in NYC.
 
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DDUKON
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 18th, 2013, 9:30 am

I agree with capafan2. Join a corporation like IBM or Intel . These are the companies which are doing much more than normal housekeeping IT. We just had guys over to provide consultancy on faster simulations and pricing. None of them had extensive finance knowledge before. Also look for companies like http://www.xcelerit.com/
 
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lexington
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 18th, 2013, 4:37 pm

even people working in banks don't understand the business. it is IT everywhere.The investment banking stars of the future will be in IT
 
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Cuchulainn
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 18th, 2013, 7:55 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtoneven people working in banks don't understand the business. it is IT everywhere.The investment banking stars of the future will be in ITMaybe. 'Pure' IT is a tool and a commodity (although it is also vital). There's very little of solid engineering principles in IT IMO.IMHO the key is knowing the business and computers/automation (the word 'IT' is too broad .. it means nothing and everything). CIO/CTO is just 0.001 % of the population. And the other 100 - 0.001?
Last edited by Cuchulainn on July 17th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Step over the gap, not into it. Watch the space between platform and train.
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capafan2
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 18th, 2013, 9:20 pm

Technology offers a very good long term career. Pay is also very good compared to just about most industries, even in the Healthcare industry which is another industry experiencing, and expected to grow in the next decade. There is a tendency on most people parts to look down on programming, considering it as inferior work but in fact it is good work - Air Conditioned Offices, Good Six Figure Salaries, comfortable life and most importantly tremendous Job Mobility, often across industries. No other jobs I know offer this kind of mobility. This brings enormous security which has considerable "peace-of-mind" value.Plus folks who know how to adapt to changing technology landscape are perpetually in demand at very high salary or rates. And people who are the front of each technology curve are also reasonably respected (not like Surgeons are but still). It is important for Computer Programmers, especially the good ones to appreciate this reality. Blindly chasing Quant or Trader job has actually been the bane of most Quant Developers. IT jobs in banks is like working in a Hospital. It is not your creativity that matters but your responsiveness to crisis and ability to work through it. The stress is almost never compensated fairly and like Doctors look down on Nurses, the business side looks down on IT. That creates it own stress and misery. Plus spend enough years in Finance IT, no other industry will touch you. Also your skills are likely to get rapidly outdated from an overall industry perspective. But the last factor is less of an issue as some other company in IT will hire you as a project manager due to you ingrained crisis handling skills.
 
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lexington
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 19th, 2013, 2:30 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainn CIO/CTO is just 0.001 % of the population. And the other 100 - 0.001?they want to fire 100 - 0.001 the article says that banks are looking for CIO/CTOs who can develop software which will replace IT staff. banks are tired of paying bonuses to people in IT.
 
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Cuchulainn
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 19th, 2013, 7:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainn CIO/CTO is just 0.001 % of the population. And the other 100 - 0.001?they want to fire 100 - 0.001 the article says that banks are looking for CIO/CTOs who can develop software which will replace IT staff. banks are tired of paying bonuses to people in IT.Just having a CTO is no guarantee of performance improvement. At the end of the day, people make things happen, not rubber stamps :-)
Last edited by Cuchulainn on July 18th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Step over the gap, not into it. Watch the space between platform and train.
http://www.datasimfinancial.com
http://www.datasim.nl
 
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capafan2
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How do I avoid housekeeping IT

July 20th, 2013, 12:02 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: lexingtonQuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainn CIO/CTO is just 0.001 % of the population. And the other 100 - 0.001?they want to fire 100 - 0.001 the article says that banks are looking for CIO/CTOs who can develop software which will replace IT staff. banks are tired of paying bonuses to people in IT.And aren't they tired of paying bonuses to the risk guys? Surely they are not front office "traders" either. The notion of bonuses for IT or even Risk is just bullshit. People are just paid delayed compensation to ensure they stay and slave longer. There is no way to reliably estimate the contribution of IT and Risk person to the bottomline. But if you do not pay them a fair end of year total comp they will leave for someone who pays better. Also the notion of bonuses allows banks to cut salary and push people out without looking like total pricks. No one gets a bonus in IT. They just get paid the rest of their pay at the end of the year.Don't know if you meant CIO/CTO developing software as a joke. But most people who float up to that level take pride in the fact that they "Don't develop any more"
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