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Canta86
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Joined: September 6th, 2012, 9:11 pm

p-quant vs developers

July 17th, 2015, 8:13 pm

Hi all,I would like to have some feedback and suggestions about a possible career for a final year phd student in financial maths (stoch calculus, derivatives, etc).I know that possibilities are many, and people should do what they like the most. But I'm asking suggestions in view of the future developments in the market. (For example, looking for a job in derivatives pricing probably is not a good idea).It seems that in this moment there is a big demand of p-quants and data scientists, as well as quant-developers. (assuming I have basic knowledge of both statistics and C++ programming)Which one to go for?
 
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Hansi
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p-quant vs developers

July 17th, 2015, 10:43 pm

No one in industry uses p-quants so I had to google it but p-quants vs data scientists vs quant-developers those are not mutually exclusive, just labels.You don't know anything about the industry nor the possible roles because you haven't been there, what kind of work out of the stuff you've already studied interests you? That might be a better indicator for suggestions.
 
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Canta86
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Joined: September 6th, 2012, 9:11 pm

p-quant vs developers

July 18th, 2015, 4:50 pm

Thanks for the reply,I knew it was difficult to write in an appropriate way what I wanted to ask :) ... so, sorry for the strange "p-quant" label.Actually I just wanted to know what the actual market want the most:people who use statistics skills for estimation,evaluation,predictions etc? Or quants who mainly focus on quantitative software development?(Or something else?)
 
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Hansi
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p-quant vs developers

July 19th, 2015, 10:32 am

Both, although the industry has been contracting in the last few years it's still pretty big in terms of role variety and different skills that are required for different roles.On stats vs development skills, they simply aren't mutually exclusive. Our team is loosely split into quant devs and quant analysts and devs have average stats, great dev skills,analysts have great stats skills, average dev skills but then again we also have people that are great in both.Although not perfect this is a decent intro to what kind of roles are out there and what skills they require: issue for you will most likely be getting that first 'foot in the door' role. Most of the time these tend to be in the larger financial centres.One thing worth noting is that development roles are quite frequently set up as contracting roles (at least in the big banks) which pay a good day rate but no benefits or bonuswhile the quant analyst roles tend to be permanent positions.My view when recruiting tends to be aiming for a 'jack of all trades, master of one'. So aim for someone that understands the business, finance as a whole, programming, math etcat surface level but really outshines all existing team members in one area so adding that person to the team will make it stronger as a whole.
Last edited by Hansi on July 18th, 2015, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ArthurDent
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p-quant vs developers

July 19th, 2015, 1:04 pm

I presume, "p-quant" refers to measure theory?The days of mathematicians and physicists on wall street was in the 90s and early 00's.Nowadays it is all about electronic something, automated something else, fintech.Lending to people based on the SAT scores, rather than FICO, etc. (Yes, for real, I recently came across research reports saying the banks are doomed because a bunch of startups are doing this.)There are prop (derivatives) trading shops - but they are not in banks, for example, hedgers at insurance companies, buy side quant trading firms...Banks only have flow trading left. No prop. You need to go to the buy side if you want interesting + well-paid work.What is your "comparative advantage" relative to the thousands of other applicants?Why do you even want to be a quant? Everyone is labelled a quant now.
 
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DevonFangs
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p-quant vs developers

July 21st, 2015, 10:49 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiNo one in industry uses p-quants so I had to google it but p-quants vs data scientists vs quant-developers those are not mutually exclusive, just labels.You don't know anything about the industry nor the possible roles because you haven't been there, what kind of work out of the stuff you've already studied interests you? That might be a better indicator for suggestions.we do say p-quants here for those people
 
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Hansi
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Joined: January 25th, 2010, 11:47 am

p-quant vs developers

July 21st, 2015, 12:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsQuoteOriginally posted by: HansiNo one in industry uses p-quants so I had to google it but p-quants vs data scientists vs quant-developers those are not mutually exclusive, just labels.You don't know anything about the industry nor the possible roles because you haven't been there, what kind of work out of the stuff you've already studied interests you? That might be a better indicator for suggestions.we do say p-quants here for those peopleGoogle suggests it's really only used in one paper by one guy creating the labelling and then some blogs talking about it. Heck this post is number 2 or 3 when searching on google now.Even if your team uses it and the categories may make sort of sense in a simplified categorization of roles I've never heard any quant or non-quant I've met in the industry use the label. But yes I should have slotted a 'as far as I know' in there somewhere.
Last edited by Hansi on July 20th, 2015, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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MiloRambaldi
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Joined: July 26th, 2010, 12:27 am

p-quant vs developers

July 21st, 2015, 4:06 pm

I assumed it referred to P-quant versus Q-quant: P versus QThe topic p-quant vs developers seems a bit odd though.
 
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Canta86
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Joined: September 6th, 2012, 9:11 pm

p-quant vs developers

July 21st, 2015, 6:46 pm

Yeah, actually I've seen the label "p-quant" just in the Meucci's paper. I didn't know it's not a used label.Anyway, thank you for the replies. In particular this one is very useful:QuoteOriginally posted by: HansiOn stats vs development skills, they simply aren't mutually exclusive. ...My view when recruiting tends to be aiming for a 'jack of all trades, master of one'. Maybe this topic can seems a bit odd... I just wanted to have some ideas about what the market needs. Now I'm curious about the ratio analysts/developers of your group Hansi. Is it possible to know? (and if possible also what your team is working on, thanks)The "master of one" concept is very interesting. My research topic concerns stochastic calculus applied in finance (Lévy processes and stoch control). So, in my spare, I don't think it is a good strategy to increase my skills in topics like (for instance) solving PIDEs or HJBs, but focus more on coding or statistics/time series etc...This is the reason why to have an idea of what the market wants now! Am I right?QuoteOriginally posted by: ArthurDentWhy do you even want to be a quant? Everyone is labelled a quant now.After a phd in fin math. If I don't want to start a postdoc, I think it's the only possibility. :)
 
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Hansi
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Joined: January 25th, 2010, 11:47 am

p-quant vs developers

July 21st, 2015, 9:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Canta86Now I'm curious about the ratio analysts/developers of your group Hansi. Is it possible to know? (and if possible also what your team is working on, thanks)Currently 50-50 but with some temps on the dev side while all the analysts are perm. Feel free to PM me for specific questions.
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