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SigmundFraud
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January 16th, 2014, 5:27 pm

Has anyone read this in the FT today about working hours for juniors in banks: Bankers and lawyers are on an unhealthy treadmillWhat are peoples' thoughts on the article/average (junior) quant hours?
 
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ppauper
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January 16th, 2014, 6:04 pm

I've fixed the link:QuoteOriginally posted by: SigmundFraudHas anyone read this in the FT today about working hours for juniors in banks: Bankers and lawyers are on an unhealthy treadmillWhat are peoples' thoughts on the article/average (junior) quant hours? but you still need an FT subscription to read it
Last edited by ppauper on January 15th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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January 16th, 2014, 6:58 pm

People naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.
 
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Cuchulainn
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January 17th, 2014, 9:57 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaPeople naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.Working for longer hours destroys creativity. Henry Ford knew this. Long hours do not necessarily impair health, but zombie-like behaviour is possible. It's an outdated model.In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? QuoteResearch discussed in the book Creativity and the Mind showed that regular breaks significantly enhance problem-solving skills, partly by making it easier for you to go through your memories to find clues. Henri Poincare and Jaques Hadamard have documented this process.
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Traden4Alpha
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January 17th, 2014, 12:27 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaPeople naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.Working for longer hours destroys creativity. Henry Ford knew this. Long hours do not necessarily impair health, but zombie-like behaviour is possible. It's an outdated model.In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? QuoteResearch discussed in the book Creativity and the Mind showed that regular breaks significantly enhance problem-solving skills, partly by making it easier for you to go through your memories to find clues. Henri Poincare and Jaques Hadamard have documented this process.Those are all valid points. (And we might discuss whether 2008 was due to too much creativity or too much zombie-like behaviour.)Still, if you were a bank, would you prefer someone who has the demonstrated ability to work 80 hr/week or someone who might fall apart if the workload suddenly increases? Making people work long hours might be suboptimal, but having a workforce that is incapable of working long hours could be worse.
 
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Cuchulainn
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January 17th, 2014, 12:39 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaPeople naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.Working for longer hours destroys creativity. Henry Ford knew this. Long hours do not necessarily impair health, but zombie-like behaviour is possible. It's an outdated model.In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? QuoteResearch discussed in the book Creativity and the Mind showed that regular breaks significantly enhance problem-solving skills, partly by making it easier for you to go through your memories to find clues. Henri Poincare and Jaques Hadamard have documented this process.Those are all valid points. (And we might discuss whether 2008 was due to too much creativity or too much zombie-like behaviour.)Still, if you were a bank, would you prefer someone who has the demonstrated ability to work 80 hr/week or someone who might fall apart if the workload suddenly increases? Making people work long hours might be suboptimal, but having a workforce that is incapable of working long hours could be worse.I am not a bank, so I don't know. I spent 12 months waiting for a new mortgage contract, so I guess the troops are a bit front-weary. Again, Henry Ford had the solution. You can monitor performance.QuoteThose are all valid pointsNice to hear it. Next question
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 16th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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frenchX
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January 17th, 2014, 1:50 pm

Optimum working hour is an interesting topic and it depends on :-knowledge intensive/physical intensive work-delivery driven/discovery driven work-social interaction among workers-work life balance cultural choice-expected career objective-experience in the task to be accomplishedetc... and so on.The optimal hour is a matter of YOUR objective. In general productivity is an inverted U shape curve with working hour so there is really an optimum but this optimum is individual dependent.
 
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ppauper
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January 17th, 2014, 2:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaPeople naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.Working for longer hours destroys creativity. Henry Ford knew this. Long hours do not necessarily impair health, but zombie-like behaviour is possible. It's an outdated model.In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? "protestant work ethic"
 
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January 17th, 2014, 4:00 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaPeople naturally vary in how many hours they can work without affecting their health just as people vary in how far they can run without affecting their health. And people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on the job just as people vary in how many hours they prefer to spend on any of life's possible activities. Banks would prefer people who can and are willing to spend lots of time at the bank and are effective at those higher work loads.Working for longer hours destroys creativity. Henry Ford knew this. Long hours do not necessarily impair health, but zombie-like behaviour is possible. It's an outdated model.In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? "protestant work ethic""All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." BTW where I live less than 1% of people work more than 40 hours per week. So, the term is just a throwback to another age I think. Hanging around until boss goes home falls under this? In the old days we had clock cards and engineering projects and nobody gave a damn when you work so long as you get the work done.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 16th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Step over the gap, not into it. Watch the space between platform and train.
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ppauper
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January 17th, 2014, 8:58 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnwhere I live less than 1% of people work more than 40 hours per week. So, the term is just a throwback to another age I think. would this be where you live
 
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Cuchulainn
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January 18th, 2014, 6:46 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperHow awful; this can't be the EU because you can never get planning permission for red bricks. Unless in the Nordic countries.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 17th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Step over the gap, not into it. Watch the space between platform and train.
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http://www.datasim.nl
 
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tagoma
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January 18th, 2014, 9:15 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnwhere I live less than 1% of people work more than 40 hours per week. So, the term is just a throwback to another age I think. would this be where you livelooks like the far-end in Benefits Street
Last edited by tagoma on January 17th, 2014, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ppauper
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January 18th, 2014, 9:20 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: edouardQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: Cuchulainnwhere I live less than 1% of people work more than 40 hours per week. So, the term is just a throwback to another age I think. would this be where you livelooks like the dead-end in Benefits Streetindeed, I bet less than 1% of people in that street work more than 40 hours per week, it's just like where cuch lives
 
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tw
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January 19th, 2014, 5:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4Alpha....In mathematics, the best ideas come when you are doing other things.Quantity != Quality. I think it is an Anglo/Saxon thing that the more hours the better. BTW if you work for yourself you don't count the hours, right? Quote.....Still, if you were a bank, would you prefer someone who has the demonstrated ability to work 80 hr/week or someone who might fall apart if the workload suddenly increases? Making people work long hours might be suboptimal, but having a workforce that is incapable of working long hours could be worse.After working for 4 employers over ~15 years my current employer is the first who didn't heavily lean on me to sign a waiver to 2003/88/EC (2003). Doesn't make a squat of difference, as the p+l targets don't get any smaller.Personally,I don't really want to work in a job, where if I wake up in the middle of the night with a good idea, I don't want to workon it till it is on company time....
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