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Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 17th, 2019, 5:28 pm
by ISayMoo
The Great Brexit Dolchstoßlegende.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 17th, 2019, 5:36 pm
by Cuchulainn
A spiffing tale of how Brexit was ‘spaffed’ away 
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fint ... -1.3950422

under David Davis, described by Chris Patten in a foreword to Cook’s book as “breezy, open, amiable, lazy and incompetent”. Mandarins who had actually worked on European issues were actively excluded on the grounds that they might have “gone native”.

LOL

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 9:02 pm
by ISayMoo
I think Paul has a point that the UK negotiating team lacked cojones: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826

When I asked Michel Barnier if May or her ministers had ever made a no deal threat behind closed doors, he replied emphatically, "No",
They also lacked preparation. These Eton boys thought they'll wing it, as they always did before:
"I was very much under the view that there would be somewhere in No 10 a very small, very secret group, putting together an almighty chart, a big plan of how we were going to negotiate and crucially what our overall objectives were. So, the prime minister - rather like a Bond villain - would be sitting with her white cat on her lap with this big plan behind her. I'd love to say that that room existed. I never found it."
He wasn't the only one. In Brussels, top EU officials were waiting to see what the UK would propose.
"We thought they are so brilliant there will be, in some vault somewhere in Westminster, a Harry Potter type book with all the tricks and all the things in it to do."
Frans Timmermans, first vice president of the European Commission, was shocked by what he saw and heard. Or rather what he didn't:
"I thought, 'Oh my God, they haven't got a plan…they haven't got a plan… it's like Lance Corporal Jones'. It was, 'Don't panic, don't panic,' running around like idiots."
The problem is that the EU has created its own political class, people whose careers, pensions (as Paul said), worldview and self-respect are intimately tied to the survival of the EU. Most UK politicians don't really care, IMHO.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 9:24 pm
by bearish
I think Paul has a point that the UK negotiating team lacked cojones: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49008826

When I asked Michel Barnier if May or her ministers had ever made a no deal threat behind closed doors, he replied emphatically, "No",
They also lacked preparation. These Eton boys thought they'll wing it, as they always did before:
"I was very much under the view that there would be somewhere in No 10 a very small, very secret group, putting together an almighty chart, a big plan of how we were going to negotiate and crucially what our overall objectives were. So, the prime minister - rather like a Bond villain - would be sitting with her white cat on her lap with this big plan behind her. I'd love to say that that room existed. I never found it."
He wasn't the only one. In Brussels, top EU officials were waiting to see what the UK would propose.
"We thought they are so brilliant there will be, in some vault somewhere in Westminster, a Harry Potter type book with all the tricks and all the things in it to do."
Frans Timmermans, first vice president of the European Commission, was shocked by what he saw and heard. Or rather what he didn't:
"I thought, 'Oh my God, they haven't got a plan…they haven't got a plan… it's like Lance Corporal Jones'. It was, 'Don't panic, don't panic,' running around like idiots."
The problem is that the EU has created its own political class, people whose careers, pensions (as Paul said), worldview and self-respect are intimately tied to the survival of the EU. Most UK politicians don't really care, IMHO.
I have seen the point made that May & co studiously excluded anybody from the negotiating team that had any experience with Brussels, based on the fear that they had all gone native. So, a bunch of Eton boys winging it sounds about right.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 9:42 pm
by Paul
Nothing wrong with winging it. You have to to a great extent in negotiations. You all know that.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 9:42 pm
by bearish
The kipper story today demonstrated pretty clearly that Boris is not exactly bringing integrity and knowledge to the party. He might not have known any better, or he might purposefully have been lying. Kind of a Trump lite.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 9:45 pm
by bearish
Nothing wrong with winging it. You have to to a great extent in negotiations. You all know that.
Yes, but successfully winging it takes more knowledge, preparation and skill than following a carefully crafted plan, not less. Not unlike doing improv comedy.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 18th, 2019, 10:57 pm
by ISayMoo
Nothing wrong with winging it. You have to to a great extent in negotiations. You all know that.
“Luck Is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity"

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 6:44 am
by Paul
Nothing wrong with winging it. You have to to a great extent in negotiations. You all know that.
Yes, but successfully winging it takes more knowledge, preparation and skill than following a carefully crafted plan, not less. Not unlike doing improv comedy.
It’s exactly the same. Except for being the opposite. In improv the only rule is to never say “No.” In negotiating you try not to say “Yes.”

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 7:33 am
by ISayMoo
You also don't turn on the clock ticking before you work out what you actually want to achieve.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 2:55 pm
by Paul
Since we aren’t trying to negotiate an agreement here I will simply say that I am right and you are all wrong!

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 3:34 pm
by Cuchulainn
I see the French foreign minister was in our village today. Now that's solidarity!!
A fine dividing line. And it makes you so unhappy.
25 years ago you have a 18-year old Scots para pointing a weapon at your windscreen.

Image

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 4:40 pm
by Paul
I would rather have a beer with an 18-year old para than a French politician. That’s pretty much how I judge people.

Happiness is affected by physical sensations and emotions. Its link to economics is indirect except in extreme situations. Emotions are affected by the people around you, their values. And their entertainment value. The number of cars or bathrooms you have is at most a transient determinant of happiness. So, no, I’m not obsessed with economics. And my beer test is a good one.

I admit that having a gun pointed at you will be a downer on your mood. But the answer to that is simple. Stop blowing people up.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 6:01 pm
by Cuchulainn
I didn't know you cared.

Re: Are you ready for Brexit?

Posted: July 19th, 2019, 6:55 pm
by Paul
Only about my family.