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Gamal
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:11 am

I could give you a list of who to decide. I would be top of it. And the Queen would be pretty high up!
I'm affraid yo're not the one who decides who decides.
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:12 am

If Stay is included then everyone is really saying that a second referendum is just an excuse to stay. That’s all the Remoaners’ assumption. But it’s not clear the result would be different. There’s now soooo much evidence that the EU is evil, that the sky hasn’t fallen down, that the most lies have been told by remainers, that remainers have been the ones who’ve buggered this up. The analogy for the final point is that if half your football team is deliberately scoring own goals it doesn’t mean your team couldn’t be great, you just need to chuck the saboteurs.
Brexiteer politiicians buggered it up too, I just can't watch BoJo [1] claiming on TV barely 2 months before the departure that we can ditch the current deal and negotiate some new magic deal which will be massively better for the UK. No, we won't. We're not negotiating with a bunch of stoned bunnies, but with a very rigid, inflexible bureaucracy working on behalf of 27 nations, some which don't like us, a lot of them don't give a fig's leaf about our problems, and only a few are sympathetic to us.

At this point, it's either something close to this deal, no deal or revoking Article 50. Take your pick.

[1] To be fair, Corbyn is selling the voters exactly the same lie.
 
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Paul
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:22 am

[1] To be fair, Corbyn is selling the voters exactly the same lie.
He has a cunning plan...SHOUT at everyone. Am not convinced.

I don't even get to decide what Netflix movie we watch in my own house!
 
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Gamal
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:35 am

Don't you have Premium?
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:36 am

He has Premium, but he doesn't have the remote.
 
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rmax
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:48 am

May is probably a lovely person. But missing a crucial part of her brain. She is the problem, and the civil servants whom she let run this shambles.

And the people have already decided. If there’s another referendum (depending on the choices) it could make things worse: Civil disobedience, riots, boycotting of the referendum. (Although I’d have a side bet on apathy, and nothing happening!)

It was made clear before the vote that it would be implemented. It was in the major parties’ manifestos. So it would be hard to justify, unless Stay wasn’t in the options.

If Stay is included then everyone is really saying that a second referendum is just an excuse to stay. That’s all the Remoaners’ assumption. But it’s not clear the result would be different. There’s now soooo much evidence that the EU is evil, that the sky hasn’t fallen down, that the most lies have been told by remainers, that remainers have been the ones who’ve buggered this up. The analogy for the final point is that if half your football team is deliberately scoring own goals it doesn’t mean your team couldn’t be great, you just need to chuck the saboteurs.
I agree that Europe in the way that they have handled this are showing all the bad points of the EU. If there is another referendum and the result is no different, then all the better - that would mean that there would be fewer issues at all. However now it is clear what kind of deal Europe will let the UK have when the original vote was offered. Now it is much clearer and many of the hopes of what a Brexit would mean have crystallised and there is clarity. A vote now would be on many more facts than 2 years ago.

In terms of it being in the manifestos, then things change, and I don't that would be an issue and is a weak argument. 
 
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rmax
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:51 am

[1] To be fair, Corbyn is selling the voters exactly the same lie.
He has a cunning plan...SHOUT at everyone. Am not convinced.

I don't even get to decide what Netflix movie we watch in my own house!
I can see this being the end of Corbyn. He is very likely to lose the vote of no-confidence tomorrow. This is the weakest government for 3 generations, and he still can't influence it. What does that say about the Labour leader?

This is very similar to the issues we faced in WW2, and hence May's call for a cross party approach is good. Equally interesting that they have not contacted Corbyn (yet).
 
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Paul
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 11:55 am

Things have indeed changed. But those bad things that were predicted to happen haven't...I want the WWIII I was promised! And the bad things that have happened are because of the remoaners being in charge! You can't reward those people for causing chaos!
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:00 pm

Paul, so what kind of deal would you prefer? Some sort of a Canada FTA option?
 
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rmax
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:15 pm

Things have indeed changed. But those bad things that were predicted to happen haven't...I want the WWIII I was promised! And the bad things that have happened are because of the remoaners being in charge! You can't reward those people for causing chaos!
The remoaners aren't in charge. That is exactly the issue. Unless you think that May is one. Perhaps you would like Corbyn instead as he has been anti-Europe for many years.
 
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rmax
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:20 pm

Paul, so what kind of deal would you prefer? Some sort of a Canada FTA option?
The only deal that the UK can take will be the one that Europe will let us have. Brexiteers are anti Europe as it is overly interfering and bureaucratic, and some how believe that this state of affairs will magically change when we negotiate to leave (giving them a 10bn hole to fill in the balance-sheet). The very thing that they hate about Eruope (as well as all those pesky foreigners doing their plumbing, paying taxes and awful things like that) is the very thing that makes leaving Europe in this manner wrong. Brexiteers are hoisted with their own petard.
 
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Paul
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:27 pm

It's been remainers all the way! May is one, the civil servants who ran the show are remainers. There was a 'meaningful vote' because of remainer Gina Miller! The few Brexiteers in the cabinet either accepted castration or resigned! 

With a Brexiteer as PM and no sabotage by remainers then it would have been proper negotiating followed either by an acceptable deal or walking away with no deal.

And don't ask me what I want, I thrive on chaos! Having said that there is a limit to the chaos and I can tolerate...a Corbyn government would be too much even for me!
 
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Gamal
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:30 pm

 Brexiteers are hoisted with their own petard.
I would say politicians, all politicians. They've chosen the best person to negociate Brexit (if not why not someone else?) who negociated the best conditions (if not why not something else?). The parliament had no move, they had to accept it. They didn't and you are in trouble but they knew it in advance. No excuse for them.
 
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katastrofa
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 12:50 pm

I'm guessing it will be a "no deal" carried out by the Parliament (instead of the PM). That's what the whole game is about, isn't it?
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: UK and the EU: In or out?

January 16th, 2019, 1:43 pm

I dunno. They said they don't want a no deal too many times to accept this scenario now, IMHO.

But things change quickly.
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