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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

January 14th, 2017, 5:26 pm

The principle of linguistic relativity holds that the structure of a language affects its speakers' world view or cognition. Popularly known as the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis, or Whorfianism, the principle is often defined to include two versions. The strong version says that language determines thought, and that linguistic categories limit and determine cognitive categories, whereas the weak version says that linguistic categories and usage only influence thought and decisions.

I suppose we can translate as: give someone a hammer and everything becomes a nail. So after years working with a particular programming style everything begins to look the same. i.e. each new problem will be 'fitted' to that style. i.e. Spanish Inquisition style.

The answer is to use a style based on the requirements of the problem and needs of the organisation and not on the whims/preferences of the developer.

Some loopies and algies even get married!
You are totally right about Sapir–Whorf, hammers-and-nails, etc. Yet the bigger issue is that super-set/subset relations in programming styles.

Functional programmers will use loops when they are required but the loopers are stuck in loop land and won't use functional forms when they are clearly more efficient and more elegant.

P.S. In a mixed marriage, don't let the loopie in the kitchen! They'll cook the peas one. pea. at. a. time.
 
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Alan
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

January 14th, 2017, 5:33 pm

@Daniel, Excellent!  According to Julian Jaynes, human consciousness evolved like this:

Language => The Bicameral Mind => The Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind => Modern Consciousness

   
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 11:46 am

No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached. Edward Sapir
 
The diversity of languages is not a diversity of signs and sounds but a diversity of views of the world.
Wilhelm von Humboldt
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 1:05 pm

No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached. Edward Sapir
 
The diversity of languages is not a diversity of signs and sounds but a diversity of views of the world.
Wilhelm von Humboldt
Indeed!

Yet I'd wager that the variance in world views within a population using a given language usually exceeds the variance in world views across populations using different languages. Age, gender, socioeconomic class, occupation, and personal history all significantly alter the meanings of words.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 1:58 pm

No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached. Edward Sapir
 
The diversity of languages is not a diversity of signs and sounds but a diversity of views of the world.
Wilhelm von Humboldt
Indeed!

Yet I'd wager that the variance in world views within a population using a given language usually exceeds the variance in world views across populations using different languages.  Age, gender, socioeconomic class, occupation, and personal history all significantly alter the meanings of words.
I agree. Same holds for programming languages and the different styles within a single language. The signs, signal and rituals are Greek to those outside the population.

// I understand Afrikaans(a language) much better than West-Frisian or Limburgs (which are dialects). 
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 3:17 pm

No two languages are ever sufficiently similar to be considered as representing the same social reality. The worlds in which different societies live are distinct worlds, not merely the same world with different labels attached. Edward Sapir
 
The diversity of languages is not a diversity of signs and sounds but a diversity of views of the world.
Wilhelm von Humboldt
Indeed!

Yet I'd wager that the variance in world views within a population using a given language usually exceeds the variance in world views across populations using different languages.  Age, gender, socioeconomic class, occupation, and personal history all significantly alter the meanings of words.
I agree. Same holds for programming languages and the different styles within a single language. The signs, signal and rituals are Greek to those outside the population.

// I understand Afrikaans(a language) much better than West-Frisian or Limburgs (which are dialects). 
Interesting!

I wonder what Sapir-Whorf has to say about the non-monoligual. Knowing N>1 languages would surely affect the individual's world view. Moreover, said polyglots would diffuse foreign-language world views into their own culture.

Yesterday I heard a fellow talking on a cellphone in a mix of Spanish and English who really was freely intermixing the two at the sentence and word level.
 
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outrun
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 3:42 pm

Wednesday, two girls talking Arabic Dutch English with random transitions on the vowel scale!
 
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outrun
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 3:44 pm

Ok, thus also yesterday! Thought it was Friday!
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 8th, 2017, 4:49 pm

Wednesday, two girls talking Arabic Dutch English with random transitions on the  vowel scale!
Different languages for diverse views of reality. 
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 9th, 2017, 11:55 am

Lawyers are the cleverest people on the planet. On a new project they use analogical reasoning and modify/adapt previous projects accordingly. 

Developers as well? What are you thinking? Is that in the invoice?
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 9th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Lawyers are the cleverest people on the planet. On a new project they use analogical reasoning and modify/adapt previous projects accordingly. 

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/legal-reas-prec/

Developers as well? What are you thinking? Is that in the invoice?
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 9th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Wednesday, two girls talking Arabic Dutch English with random transitions on the  vowel scale!
Different languages for diverse views of reality. 
Maybe...

The issue is: does someone who learns a new language actually also get the same world view of a native speaker? If a native Dutchman learns English, do they suddenly become British (or American)?

Especially, in the case of people who mix languages in speaking, I'd say no because they are aren't restricting their thinking to any one language.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

June 21st, 2017, 9:31 am

“The conclusion is simple: if a 200-man project has 25 managers who are the most competent and experienced programmers,
fire the 175 troops and put the managers back to programming.”
Frederick P. Brooks Jr.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

August 3rd, 2017, 4:04 pm

What kind of programmer wrote this? (Not someone with CAD/CAM software experience).

When the scans were archived, the "less than" symbol was omitted. So instead of the system saying, for example, the narrowing of an artery was less than 50%, it wrongly said the narrowing was 50%.

Some patients may have received unnecessary treatment as a result of incorrect information on the ...'s computer system for storing scans. Others may need to have their medical tests redone.


It said: "The issue identified is in relation to the 'less than' symbol (<) being recorded in the examination report on the PACs [picture archiving communication system] component.

"Where the (<) symbol is used on a report and when that report is viewed electronically within the PACS, the symbol has been omitted and is not visible."


WYSI!WYG.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: Grammar-Pattern Programmers: Is Over-Abstraction Delivering Projects Faster Or Slower?

August 3rd, 2017, 4:41 pm

What kind of programmer wrote this? (Not someone with CAD/CAM software experience).

When the scans were archived, the "less than" symbol was omitted. So instead of the system saying, for example, the narrowing of an artery was less than 50%, it wrongly said the narrowing was 50%.

Some patients may have received unnecessary treatment as a result of incorrect information on the ...'s computer system for storing scans. Others may need to have their medical tests redone.


It said: "The issue identified is in relation to the 'less than' symbol (<) being recorded in the examination report on the PACs [picture archiving communication system] component.

"Where the (<) symbol is used on a report and when that report is viewed electronically within the PACS, the symbol has been omitted and is not visible."


WYSI!WYG.
Yipes! That's criminal. (I wonder if some idiot programmer did that to avoid some XML parser from reading the "<" as the start of a tag?)


A similar but even more insidious problem happened with some high-end Xerox copier/scanners systems that used an especially aggressive adaptive image compression scheme. Sometimes the compression encoder would mis-recognize small-type numbers and replace them with other numbers.
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