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kwd1
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How Language Could Have Evolved

December 26th, 2017, 5:34 pm

Hello Wilmott,
   I've spent some cycles here learning things and I'm aware of the high caliber of the forum.  I have the paper below in preparation and wanted to share it here.  
It presents a computational model language and some associated thought processes.  The model is made with a Markov graph node class and is largely inspired by linguistics.  
Any feedback greatly appreciated and will be rewarded with bitcoin(s).
thanks
Ken
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 5:09 pm

"The neocortex gives mammals the ability to store and recall sequences of symbols  with relative ease.  This ability gives mammals considerably more complex behavior relative to non mammals.  "

Dude, it's rubbish.
 
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outrun
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 5:17 pm

That's no bitcoins for you moo.

I think it's a great example that explains why worms without a neocrotum don't speak English.

I can give you my wallet id in a pm?
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 7:08 pm

He/she/it should read up about birds.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 8:25 pm

He/she/it should read up about birds.
Exactly! Birds have complex grammars in their songs, make tools, plan for the future, act based on logic that requires thinking about what other birds are thinking about, and can count.

Sure, a neocortex may enable more complex behavior in mammals but it's just one possible neurological implementation of advanced cognition just like x86 is just one possible instruction set for advanced computation.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 9:10 pm

Hello Wilmott,
   I've spent some cycles here learning things and I'm aware of the high caliber of the forum.  I have the paper below in preparation and wanted to share it here.  
It presents a computational model language and some associated thought processes.  The model is made with a Markov graph node class and is largely inspired by linguistics.  
Any feedback greatly appreciated and will be rewarded with bitcoin(s).
thanks
Ken
Can the article be printed in a readable form? I doubt if any of the divas have read it.
I predict this thread will turn into a tete-a-tete between outrun and T4A on RNG.. Just wait :D

I would say to Wilmotters: address the article or shut up.
 
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Alan
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 9:26 pm

I read it briefly. IMO, it comes across as simply arm chair theorizing. To do a serious effort, you need to:

- make testable predictions
- discuss how your theory could be falsified

As a prototype of the kind of effort that is needed to make a substantial contribution I recommend Jaynes' 'The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind'. Language evolution and consciousness evolution are all tied up together ...

BTW, re birds, I believe the vocabulary of birds is grossly under-estimated. From many visits to the beach, I will bet sea gulls have a specific call for a variety of snacks left unattended, especially potato chips! 
 
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outrun
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 9:44 pm

Yes, when a sea gull finds a big bag of potato chip it shouts "Hawks Hawks, avoid this place, I'm lost but you can still save yourselves!"
 
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Alan
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 9:52 pm

I don't know, maybe they are saying "bring it on Mr. Hawk, we will keeel you!"
 
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outrun
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 27th, 2017, 10:01 pm

Wow, she won't ever disturbe a gull hive a second time!
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 28th, 2017, 11:16 am

That's nothing; they could be kommies. 
Magpies can gang up to attack a cat and jackdaws can link colours to symbols.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: How Language Could Have Evolved

December 28th, 2017, 11:33 am

My first impression (caveat: I am not an ornathologist nor anthropologist) is that the article is a solution looking for a problem. It is too Chomsky-oriented. What about Sapir-Whorf (evolution of the HOPI language as test?)

What if the initial assumption in the abstract is removed?