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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 17th, 2024, 11:50 pm

We've established beyond any doubt that as long as neither your wife nor Michael Davison is around, I can beat you like a snare drum and have nothing to worry about.

Be best!
 
leptoq
Posts: 366
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 12:08 am

The only thing which was established beyond any doubt (from your own statements), besides your intellectual inferiority is that you are a little chickenshit, very brave, little internet Humus fighter. Spitting insults on the internet (assuming complete immunity) defines cowards like yourself. 
I bet when you talk to real people face to face, you probably stutter and shit your little pants. 

I'd like to see you talking like you post here to someone in person. 
Never mind, I already described how it goes. 
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 1:38 am

Seems like there should be some sort of surgical procedure for undescended testicles.

Probably you've already looked into it.
 
leptoq
Posts: 366
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 1:58 am

Seems like there should be some sort of surgical procedure for undescended testicles.

Probably you've already looked into it.
I already referred you, marsden, to Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza, where this procedure will be performed on you for free. There is a tiny catch though, your undescended testicles will be shoved up into your dirty mouth. I don't see a big problem here, since you don't talk to real people anyway.  
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 2:20 am

Put your wife on the phone.
 
leptoq
Posts: 366
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 2:26 am

Feel free to share your phone and address also, marsden. 
I'll find some time to stop by, to check that expected surgical procedure was conducted properly. 
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 12:59 pm

leptoq, take a step back.

You did something stupid and shameful. Now you have the choice of walking away from it and giving your ego some time to heal, and then moving in, or you can shape your identity around defending it and become a seriously deformed mess of humanity.

For future reference, when you're just parroting someone else's argument, you should point immediately and as directly as possible to that argument, and then step away. You obviously were not making your own argument, and you are almost certainly unaware of whatever considerations had backed up the position of the person whose argument it actually was. You should get yourself out of the middle.

And obviously you shouldn't accuse anyone else of doing what you in fact are doing.
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 1:16 pm

Settlements don't violate international law according to some scholars: https://www.law.gmu.edu/news/2019/israe ... ontorovich

"Under international law, occupation occurs when a country takes over the sovereign territory of another country. But the West Bank was never part of Jordan, which seized it in 1949 and ethnically cleansed its entire Jewish population. Nor was it ever the site of an Arab Palestinian state." (c) 
Since you actually did this right, I will respond.

Basically, if we want to take Kontorovitch's argument seriously, this is where we are:

In the wake of World War II and the Holocaust -- two of the most deadly and horrific events of human history, both fraught with acts of breathtaking evil -- the nation's of the world convened and laid out, in the Geneva and Genocide Conventions, the minimum standards for human decency in military conduct and in the treatment of innocent civilians and prisoners of war.

And just about every national government agreed with and signed off on these minimum standards of human decency.

And now for the last several decades Israel and its supporters have been falling all over themselves to find loopholes in these minimum standards of human decency.

So it really doesn't matter if any such loopholes have been found: that you would look for them with the intent of rationalizing your actions is as much as any honest person of goodwill needs to know about you.
 
leptoq
Posts: 366
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 6:19 pm

marsden, I appreciate your lecture about proper quotation rules which should be used at ivy league schools. The level of the discussion in this forum about Middle East (partially due to your style, but I'm equally guilty by letting myself being dragged into the same style) is very far from this standard. In my local bar, people discuss controversial issues in a heated way, but more respectfully, even if they beat each other to the pulp later.  

Kontorich's argument is similar to what I didn't quote "properly". West Bank is not "occupied" territory, it's "disputed" territory, whether you like it or not. There are no proper legal grounds to call settlements in West Banks war crime. (Settlers who break the rules should be prosecuted under criminal laws, and they are prosecuted.) 
 "Human decency" is not a legal term, the definition of "innocent civilians" is also muddy (some of the hostages in Gaza were held in cages by "innocent civilians" from Gaza).  

I'm going to say it one last time, I don't think Israel should maintain settlements in West Bank (regardless of my views about legal aspects of that).  
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 8:29 pm

Maybe this is what is wrong with so many versions of the Jewish religion, and why Jews are so often the targets of hatred: all that matters is obeying some rules, and not bothering with the underlying sense to the rules.

I sometimes think that there are two types of problems in human affairs: real problems and "crossword puzzle" problems. Real problems are things like getting enough to eat and, more abstractly, living among other people and not killing each other. "Crossword puzzle" problems are problems created by people, sometimes just for entertainment (actual crosswords puzzles, e.g.), but sometimes to codify real problems. So for example the problem of getting enough to eat might be codified with a standard diet, with the notion that if you follow the standard diet, you'll get enough to eat.

But this is of course artificial, and real problems often do not conform to the pat answers of crossword puzzle problems. So a standard diet designed around someone weighing 75 kg would cause a 100 kg person to waste away and a 50 kg person to blow up. "Standard diet" could of course be refined, but almost inevitably following a "standard diet" will fail to address the real problem of getting enough to eat for some people.

And even more pitfalls exist for more involved things, like living among other people without killing each other.

(Full disclosure: my professional career was based on solving crossword puzzle problems.)

So there is an infamous example in Jewish tradition around the Sixth Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill." There are, I understand, different interpretations of what the best translation of the Sixth Commandment from Hebrew would be -- sometimes "Thou shalt not murder" is preferred, distinguishing justified killing from unjustified killing -- but I think it is pretty much universally accepted in all versions of the Abrahamic religions that the Sixth Commandment means you should not kill another human being unless you have a very good cause to do so.

Now, traditional Judaism -- and I am no expert about traditional Judaism, so don't rely on anything I write about it -- goes further with regard to Jews but not to non-Jews: no less than Maimonides wrote, "As for Gentiles with whom we are not at war … their death must not be caused, but it is forbidden to save them if they are at the point of death; if, for example, one of them is seen falling into the sea, he should not be rescued, for it is written: ‘neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy fellow’–but [a Gentile] is not thy fellow" (Mishneh Torah, Laws of Murder 4:11)

And maybe the absolute culmination of this is that if a non-Jew has used a ladder to climb down into a well, there is no prohibition against taking the ladder away so the non-Jew is hopelessly trapped and ultimately dies: if his death is not directly caused, all is good.

On the other hand, if that's your attitude, you should probably expect it to be returned in kind.

Anyway, if you take comfort in finding loopholes to rationalize your evil, the world is honestly probably better off without you.
 
leptoq
Posts: 366
Joined: February 15th, 2018, 4:42 pm

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 18th, 2024, 9:04 pm

I'm lost, how your previous paragraph is related to the discussion about legality of the West Bank settlements?
Also regarding your quotes about traditional Judaism, I'm not going to google or ask anyone whether it's taken out of context, I simply don't care. Some things are completely outside of the scope of my competence and interests. 
I'm sure if you spend enough time, you might find really outrageous quotes said by some crazy Rabbi. 
Even Old Testament has more clear examples about violating "Thou shalt not murder", like how to deal with Amalek. 

It's not related at all whether proper legal case was made about legality of West Bank settlements. 
 
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Marsden
Posts: 818
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 19th, 2024, 8:38 pm

I'm lost, how your previous paragraph is related to the discussion about legality of the West Bank settlements?
Also regarding your quotes about traditional Judaism, I'm not going to google or ask anyone whether it's taken out of context, I simply don't care. Some things are completely outside of the scope of my competence and interests. 
I'm sure if you spend enough time, you might find really outrageous quotes said by some crazy Rabbi. 
Even Old Testament has more clear examples about violating "Thou shalt not murder", like how to deal with Amalek. 

It's not related at all whether proper legal case was made about legality of West Bank settlements. 
There you go.
 
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Cuchulainn
Topic Author
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Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: 20, 000

Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

February 19th, 2024, 9:03 pm

Original Seven
  1. Whatever goes upon two legs is an enemy.
  2. Whatever goes upon four legs, or has wings, is a friend.
  3. No animal shall wear clothes.
  4. No animal shall sleep in a bed.
  5. No animal shall drink alcohol.
  6. No animal shall kill any other animal.
  7. All animals are equal.
Modified Commandments
  4.  No animal shall sleep in a bed with sheets.
  5.  No animal shall drink alcohol to excess.
  6.  No animal shall kill any other animal without cause.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

March 23rd, 2024, 6:43 pm

As Gaza is destroyed, Israel is killing dozens of children in the West Bank

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproj ... -west-bank
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Meanwhile, back in the West Bank

March 23rd, 2024, 6:46 pm

‘Little Gaza’: Mourning loved ones Israel killed in West Bank refugee camps

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1 ... -camps-war