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unquantifiable
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 9:27 am

Some forwarded trivia about Mrs. Gandhi...1.. Sonia Gandhi is ONLY a high school graduate. It is not even sure if she is Matric pass or fail. Cambridge University has confirmed that they have no Sonia Maino on their alumni list.2.. Her sister, Nadia Mario, who had never visited India before rushed to New Delhi, after Vajpayee govt.fell, to be by her side amidst reports that she might soon become India's Prime Minister.3.. Should Sonia Gandhi become Prime Minister, her relatives in Italy would be fully entitled to round-the-clock protection by the Black Cat commandos at the Indian taxpayer's expense.4.. She worked as an house maid in UK while taking classes to learn English in some no name school. She was from a poor family in Italy but now has almost as much money as Bill Gates (guess whose money is it).5.. During the 1971 war, while all Indians stood ready to fight for the Indian cause Sonia Maino and her husband Rajiv Gandhi went on vacation in Italy.6.. In 1977, when Indira Gandhi and Congress lost elections, Sonia Gandhi with her children and husband in tow took refuge of Italian embassy in New Delhi. Only after Indira Gandhi, Sanjay and his Indian wife Maneka convinced her that they came back.7.. Sonia married Rajiv in 1968 and was eligible to become Indian citizen 5 years later yet she did NOT become Indian citizen till 1984 I.e. 16 years after her marriage) This late bloom of Sonia's love for India also was out of political consideration. In 1984, Rajiv, was heir apparent and most likely next Prime Minister. It would be awkward for a PM to have a foreigner wife. Voila, Sonia became an Indian Overnight.8.. She has not given a single interview or offered any ideas on a single issue facing India now. Her only qualification is that she married a Gandhi. No newspaper has taken up the issue; no political party is opposing this, people are falling in line as if this is nothing unusual.9.. Sonia became an Indian citizen in 1984 but did not surrender her Italian citizenship. She continues to be simultaneously a citizen of India and Italy as Italian law does not require her to surrender her Italian citizenship or passport. Simply put, Sonia is a dual citizen of India and Italy now dreaming of becoming the next Prime Minister of India (she can also legally become the prime minister of Italy!)...
 
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balrog
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 10:16 am

Some of these points are pretty irrelevant or frankly unbelievable! - I mean, my god, she worked as a house maid - she now has as much money as Bill Gates!? Unfortunately foolish ad hominem attacks like this distract from actual important points: for example she only applied for Indian citizenship when her husband was about to become PM - I see this lady obviously deserves to now lead the nation.As for all those from outside India who insist that there is no problem with a foreign born person becoming the leader of a country, can you honestly state that you are happy to see the same for the land you live in? Anyone? It amuses me to see the western press lauded the victory of of Congress and the return of foreign rule to India - cloaking their hypocrisy in every cause they can dream of
 
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DominicConnor
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 12:40 pm

This is the first instance of anti Italian racism I've seen here.If used against a person of India birth, but white country nationalist it would be even more obvious.1.. Sonia Gandhi is ONLY a high school graduate.George W. Bush on the other hand is a graduate or a prestigous school.That didn't work out did it ?2.. Her sister, Nadia Mario, who had never visited India before rushed to New Delhi, after Vajpayee govt.fell, to be by her side amidst reports that she might soon become India's Prime MinisterSo she has hangers on in her family. Quite unlike err umm, George Bush ? The Clintons ? Jimmy Carter ? The only US politican I can think of free free of this taint is Nixon. Is this a role model for you ?3.. Should Sonia Gandhi become Prime Minister, her relatives in Italy would be fully entitled to round-the-clock protection by the Black Cat commandos at the Indian taxpayer's expense.If Britain or America banned anyone with Indian relatives from office would this not be racism ?In any case you're contradicting yourself with (2). Mindlessly slagging one family member for coming to India, and slagging the rest for not.4.. She worked as an house maid in UK while taking classes to learn English in some no name school. She was from a poor family inItalyYou come from an inferior culture. In my culture, someone who works themselves up is seen as better than someone born to it. but now has almost as much money as Bill Gates (guess whose money is it).You're exaggerating her wealth, and in any case all Inidan politicians are corrupt on an epic scale. The Indians know all this but still voted for her.During the 1971 war, while all Indians stood ready to fight for the Indian causeHave you been to India ? Do you know any Indians ? Could you place it on the map if I held your hand and it had India written upon in it large glowing letters ?Many Indians are very very committed pacifists, and would literally die rather than fight anyone for any reason. Some are cowards, all nations contain them.Millions of Indian citizens really don't want to be Indian citizens at all, and would either fight for Pakistan, or refuse to fight against it. Like all countries, even in an emergency it contains poeple who simply can't be bothered to do anything, much less fight.Sonia Maino and her husband Rajiv Gandhi went on vacation in Italy.I note the use of her maiden name, presumably as a racist exaggeration of how foreign she is.India has never require women to fight, so quite what use she would be I simply do not know. What use would Rajiv be ?Fat dumb result of inbreeding and India's dumb obsession with dynasties. The only use would be as bayonet practice.6.. In 1977, when Indira Gandhi and Congress lost elections, Sonia Gandhi with her children and husband in tow took refuge ofItalian embassy in New Delhi.India has an appalling tradition of political assassination. Are you so ignorant of Indian history and politics that you don't know what happened to both her mother in law and husband ? 7.. Sonia married Rajiv in 1968 and was eligible to become Indian citizen 5 years later yet she did NOT become Indian citizen till1984 I.e. 16 years after her marriage)Few women bother to do so, regardless of station in life or nationality.This late bloom of Sonia's love for India also was out of political consideration.Unlike you, I'm not racist enough to believe that everyone who works for my country needs to have been born here.It would be awkward for a PM to have a foreigner wife.Are you saying that most Indians are as ignorant and dumb as you ?8. She has not given a single interview or offered any ideas on a single issue facing India now. Why did she win then ?Her only qualification is that she married a Gandhi.People still voted for her. Either Indians are appalingly dumb, or they know something you don't. Given your last post knowing more than you is the least exclusive club in the world.No newspaper has taken up the issue;I don't read Indian newspapers much, but even a westerner knows this to be bollocks.political party is opposing this, The BJP tried damn hard to stop her. Perhaps I'm going to fast did you know about the BJP ? They used to be in government ?people are falling in line as if this is nothing unusual.It isn't unusual.It's called democracy.The power moves from one load of people to another.she can also legally become the prime minister of Italy!)...Also of Britain or Poland , so what ? Mrs. Gandhi is I believe now eligible to be Queen (morganic of course)We have MPs in the British parliament who have rights to German, Italian, Spanish and of course Indian passports.Nothing to stop them getting to be PM.
 
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DominicConnor
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 12:46 pm

As for all those from outside India who insist that there is no problem with a foreign born person becoming the leader of a country, can you honestly state that you are happy to see the same for the land you live in?Yep, 100%Think of the situation where you don't allow this.Running a country is an important job, and god knows the quality of people who get it aren't always impressiveSo, for some racist reason, you ban random people, by your definition, it includes the large number of people who came here so young that they can't remember ever being foreign.Thus you pick the second best person.You can't be US Presdient, unless born a citizen.It got George W. Bush.I think that proves my point rather well.
 
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ppauper
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 1:45 pm

Last edited by ppauper on December 14th, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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zerdna
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 2:04 pm

I have no objections to the choice of Indians. Being quite ignorant about indian politics it seems quite odd though that democratic process leads to such a high percentage of the members of one family elected to the highest post. Nehru, Indira, Rajiv, Sonia. Did i miss someone? How many were there in India overall? That stuff happenned in the US three times i suppose -- Adams, Roosevelt, and Bush, that makes three pairs out of 42. With India one starts to ponder questions about what's up with Ghandi family.
 
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James
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 2:18 pm

"She worked as an house maid in UK while taking classes to learn English in some no name school."I worked as a janitor once. Now I have a household staff. My wife worked as a maid in the USA attending Northern Virginia Community College. Now she manages a billion euro portfolio. I am eligible for any office in the US government, and will, without embarassment, include 'janitor' on my c.v. if I ever serve.Ain't upward social mobility grand? But more importantly, it is *a value we should all hold dear because *merit* (which includes political merit) should be discovered and rewarded. She married well, but again that is to her credit.BTW, another Ghandi outlawed the 'untouchableness' of any task associated with caste or person and the disqualification for other duties once it had been performed by them. Forward thinking Indians died for this concept. Honour them."She was from a poor family in Italy but now has almost as much money as Bill Gates (guess whose money is it)."If she has it now, it is her money.If she stole it and you can prove it, bring charges.I gladly give Bill Gates a check. His products have made my life better. I still want better products. I will buy them, whether Bill gives them to me or not. Apprently the corruption system in India thought she was a good bet to give her such a pile."This late bloom of Sonia's love for India also was out of political consideration."But if it came, then it is. And if she has citizenship, and it is constitutional, then she can be PM. I may not like her for a host of other reasons, but this can't be one of them. Ambition is part of any political process. This shocks only folks with their head so far up their ass they need a glass navel to see where they are going."Sonia Gandhi is ONLY a high school graduate."There have been well-educated leaders who unleashed horrors on the world, and self-educated ones who were excellent. I see no correlation. She may suck, but this won't be the explainatory variable."her relatives in Italy would be fully entitled to round-the-clock protection by the Black Cat commandos at the Indian taxpayer's expense."Money well-spent. Especially compared to the stultifying, mind-numbing, bass-ackwards, stupid, and just plain embarrassing by any world standard scloroctic layers of beaurecratic horrors and layers upon layers of useless human activity that you find in *any* Indian beauracracy or government administration. If you want to save the Indian taxpayers money, start there first. A phalanx of 100 warriors protecting her family is not even a rounding error compared to the number of third chief assistant administrators to the sub-division of addition functions of the jute counting administration of the south upper region of blah blah blah. It is just hell. Embarrasing hell. Halls upon halls of rows upon row of mindless clerks scribbling away in gigantic ledgers, each with a large staff.Don't get me wrong, I love India, and want a bright future for India and my Indian friends. But Indian beauracracy is the worst a madman or Satan could imagine. And I live in *France.* Everyone knows it is a horrible shit-pile, but still it remains. Corruption has become so bad simply because these life employees are so entrenched, still using tools and record keeping methods last seen when Queen Victoria ruled them. Corruption is the only way to get around the clerks. It makes any sane rational person sick that so much human potential is wasted in the Indian beauracracy system.You begrudge the PM's family protection and complain about taxes compared to *that*? What do you trade and where, I want to arb off you if you think that is an issue."Her sister, Nadia Mario, who had never visited India before rushed to New Delhi"My brother, an unreconstructed southern nativist, proudly has never been north of the Mason-Dixon line. What does that have to do with who I am and what I think or what I am capable of? I really fail to see the connection here. I expect if I win the Nobel Prize for Econ my brother would leave dixie for the event."Sonia became an Indian citizen in 1984 but did not surrender her Italian citizenship. She continues to be simultaneously a citizen of India and Italy as Italian law does not require her to surrender her Italian citizenship or passport. Simply put, Sonia is a dual citizen of India and Italy now dreaming of becoming the next Prime Minister of India (she can also legally become the prime minister of Italy!)"It is a pain in the butt to surrender or renounce your citizenship of some countries. But the more important thing is, apparently *Indian* law does not require her to renounce or abandon her Italian citizenship in order to be and Indian citizen or PM. Indians can't really do much about what sovereign nation Italy decides on recognizing/not recognizing her as a citizen if she pledges loyalty to India and takes Indian citizenship. But they *can* do something about *requiring* her to renounce citizenship elsewhwere as a condition of her being an Indian citizen. Appaently, they didn't care or don't think it important. If this matters, then the stupid party is Indian law, not Italian law."In 1977, when Indira Gandhi and Congress lost elections, Sonia Gandhi with her children and husband in tow took refuge of Italian embassy in New Delhi. "Considering that her mother in law was assasinated by her own Shik guards, I, unlike yourself, attribute brialliance to this strategy rather than disloyalty to India or disqualification for the office of PM. She was one smart cookie to run to that embassy. Smart, very smart.This whole posting looks like a crock, designed to appeal to the baser thoughts that human reductivist caste thinking produces. India constitutionally has moved away from this, with blood shed for it. It is a pity, and also questionable, that this line of ideological thinking still has adherents among those who subscribe to democracy. Those who subscribe to a religiously-revealed caste-based nationalism of course would have no problems with it. But then, they would not be loyal to India's current constitution if they held those views.BTW, I think Ms. Ghandi will suck as a PM and will end up playing footsie with the Communists to have a super majority in her government and parliment. The exact wrong path for India's future, IMHO. Looks like capital is flowing out of the Indian stock market just based on the *idea* she may broker a deal with the commies. Wrong direction toots. Best pay attention. Good luck.
 
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balaji
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 2:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: unquantifiableSome forwarded trivia about Mrs. Gandhi...This is simply not worth replying to or wasting time on it. Absolute rubbish and petty stuff. Let's end this thread.
Last edited by balaji on May 16th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Derivativestrader
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 4:35 pm

>>>This is the first instance of anti Italian racism I've seen here.If used against a person of India birth, but white country nationalist it would be even more obvious.if she were a person of italian origin but born/ brought up in India, the opinions of most people would be different from what they are today. i do not think that's racism. Anyway, i do not see any non-white even being a candidate for PM in the UK. By your own definition, the population must be so racist that even this thought is precluded. Either that or the whites are obviously always the best for the job in your opinion. Whichever you choose, sounds like racism to me.>>>You come from an inferior culture. In my culture, someone who works themselves up is seen as better than someone born to it.I guess Anna Nicole Smith is an idol in your native Ireland. I'm sure even you are smart enough to realise that there's a difference between working your way up is not the same as marrying into wealth/ power.
Last edited by Derivativestrader on May 16th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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daveangel
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 4:46 pm

I suppose if there was constitutional bar agaisnt her taking up office because of her Italian birth then it should be enforced. In the US for example one cannot be president unless one was born there. I suppose in the UK we have a small problem with a Catholic becoming PM and to be frank I find it difficult to conceive that middle England is going to vote for a non-white person. I just dont see it happening now. So, in my opinion the Indian people did a sterling job by voting for an under educated Italian housewife to lead their country.
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers
 
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ppauper
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 5:58 pm

Last edited by ppauper on December 14th, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DominicConnor
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 8:06 pm

Anyway, i do not see any non-white even being a candidate for PM in the UK.True.But I would vote for a non-white if there was a plausible candidate.By your own definition, the population must be so racist that even this thought is precluded.Oh, sure we have racism, but that will be overcome the same way sexism kept women out of top jobs went away. The thought is not precluded though. Either that or the whites are obviously always the best for the job in your opinion. Please pay me the couresy of reading my posts. I have explictly said several times that I'm not against non-natives ruling this country, and have pointed out that non-natives have sometimes ruled here quite well.Whichever you choose, sounds like racism to me.There is racism, but not mine.I guess Anna Nicole Smith is an idol in your native Ireland. I'm a native of Hertfordshire, England, as it happens my grandmother was born not far from Margaret Thatchers granny in Ireland. My Irish relative alas, have for many years suffered from a notion of people having a station in life. "Jumped up" and similar terms being too common in their speech for my taste. The culture I was raised in is more free of such self destructive notions, though not free enough. I'm sure even you are smart enough to realise that there's a difference between working your way up is not the same as marrying into wealth/ power.Agreed.However, Mrs. Gandhi was being slagged for having once been poor, and I have contempt for people who use that as an insult. Frankly we all make our way in life as best we can, there's people who've got rich by far worse ways than marrying. Many of them run India.
 
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Hamilton
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 8:10 pm

xenophobia Xenophon was a greek military general.
 
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ppauper
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 8:51 pm

Last edited by ppauper on December 14th, 2004, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Mano
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Does Mrs. Sonia Gandhi have the moral right to be the Indian PM?

May 17th, 2004, 9:41 pm

I have nothing against anybody being the prime minister of India, Sonia is as good as any other. It is undoubtedly on the Nehru-Gandhi family name she has been made the Congress leader as was Rajiv. I don't think she will a worse job than Rajiv, he was a political virgin when he became PM as is she.The only problem I foresee with Sonia becoming PM is that she will have problems in making the coalition work as she does not have political experience. The hangers on of the congress will influence her every decision as happened with Rajiv.Many of the people who were surprised by the congress victory did not bother to go and vote in the election. The people who did vote were mere bystanders in the economic boom of the last few years.So I just hope and pray that Sonia will have the courage and tenacity to do something for them.
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