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samudra
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July 20th, 2004, 12:19 pm

Arnold has said what should have been said long time back. We are descending into an age of cowardice, where nerds and computer geeks aregetting glorified. All the softie bookworm kind of a**holes becoming the fu **ed up superstars.What a disgusting age we are living in ......... Although I am working in computers for last 10 years I feel apalled at this machine whichhas caused more to the decimation of the true attributes of courage, vigor and willpower. Man is fast descending into the realm of girlie men and even the film stars today are typified by the girlie types like Orlando Bloom.Will this pathetic state ever end or are we slowly moving towards an era wherethe nerds and geeks will rule the world !!!!Long live Arnold ...... I wish he come up with words which are much more vitrolic and which will smash the foundation of these sissy's.I myself would feel really good to use these two wonderful words to lot of people around me who really deservesthis epithet ...... but the supersized girlie girlie sexual harassment clauses prevent me from that .......long live girlie corporate America !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have achieved your goal of converting Men into adorable a**kissing, very compliant girlie men ......... as always you are way ahead of schedule .......
 
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Clopinette
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July 20th, 2004, 1:35 pm

Oh yeah ? Can you tell us why you think a computer geek cannot be courageous?An by the way can you tell us what "courageous" means according to you?"brainless, hairy and muscled" may be?
 
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samudra
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July 20th, 2004, 1:57 pm

Clopinette,Muscles have very direct correlation to raw courage and if you look into history men of valor, honor and the ones who were idolized were eithervery strong or there temparament was very very aggressive( all legendary kings,rulers, generals etc). There is absolutely no scientific basis to assume that a muscular man will always be brainless( like there is no correaltion that a blonde will always be dumb). But even then a brainless muscular man is anyday better than crying and whining girlie nerdy male geek.Men has been designed by nature to dominate. It has always happened and it always happen in thefuture.Computer essentially robs the power and makes a person it slave. There is a possiblity that there analytical power of computer be superimposed withthe basic male courage and aggression.But Men must be men and somehow computer and the distorted ideas of this ageare somehow euloigizing some femininie traits in the male bastion. Pathetic, disgusting andhorrible to say the least.But such are the ways of these age of nerds and geeks !!!!!!! These girlie men are splashing black ink allover the instituiton of Man. We need many more Arnolds and there firy speech to awaken the true spiritof the Man.
 
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zerdna
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July 20th, 2004, 1:58 pm

sam, what's going on? you don't seem like yourself. You post and don't even mention that you're an excellent dancer with unhuman flexibility, uncomparable martial artist, and all around genius. You didn't even ask for a little advice on how to make a billion gazzilion dollars doing no work but only using terrifying math smarts of the forum members. I come to expect more from you, are you tired? Clopinette, your post count is 65, you should post your picture immediately,otherwise administator will close your access to the forum as soon as you count touches a "no-picture" knock-out boundary of 66. On the topic, let the revolt against the girlie men and the machines begin, everyone to the barricade! we shall overcome!
 
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samudra
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July 20th, 2004, 2:15 pm

Z,as you can understand a man really gets tired and worn out interacting constantly with girlie men who are there all around in the workplace ........
 
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unquantifiable
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July 21st, 2004, 4:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: samudraClopinette,Men has been designed by nature to dominate. It has always happened and it always happen in thefuture.Computer essentially robs the power and makes a person it slave. There is a possiblity that there analytical power of computer be superimposed withthe basic male courage and aggression.samudra,it takes all kinds... while i shall reserve my comments on girlie-men (sic!)why do you say that about computers...they are really not some sort of extra terrestrials that descended upon earth one day with their evil designs... they were designed by humans...it's our fault if we accept systems for what they are and not what you want them to be...but definitely, keep this thread going :-)
Last edited by unquantifiable on July 20th, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DominicConnor
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July 21st, 2004, 8:46 am

Saumdra: There is absolutely no scientific basis to assume that a muscular man will always be brainless( like there is no correaltion that a blonde will always be dumb). I'm not so sure.Fact is that muscles and most aspects of appearance are driven by choice.They are signals. Women with serious jobs often use less cosmetics and drab clothes to differentiate themselves from women with lower status.A woman who makes here hair more blonde is in the position where she perceives her life will be better by looking good than by seeming intelligent. Typically such a woman is less intelligent, so there is causality, just not so direct.Heavy manual workers don't have the sort of muscles you get in a gym, and often don't look good naked. Again the same sort of logic applies. In particular gym muscles aren't so good for fighting.
 
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Clopinette
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July 21st, 2004, 11:36 am

"..... if you look into history men of valor, honor and the ones who were idolized were eithervery strong or there temparament was very very aggressive( all legendary kings, rulers, generals etc). "==>History that is precisely what this is about: Samudra's vision of courage and force goes back to the Middle Age.There are a few places on earth where you could still live like that nowdays. Are you not tempted to emigrate !?
 
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samudra
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July 21st, 2004, 12:34 pm

Clopinette,The fundamnetal attributes of life is always the same. This age is not different fromthe past 2000 yrs. Even in the earlier ages technology was there but they would appearvery rudimentary when we look at it today. But we have to understand that when wheel was discoveredit was a landmark discovery and as important as the discovery of computer in this age.The point is all throughout the history men of valor and courage have been eulogized and earned respect .......how can it suddenly change in this age?Please understand I have the greatest respect for women. There are certain fundamental attributes which over the ages one has expected from men and women and it cant change. For example in dancing( I have done quite a bit of dancing and even little choreography also) the womenis always the boss. This is the way it is and we have to respect it. But offcourse there are areas like say finance or law where it doesnt really matter at all whether a person is male or female.But the main point is a man in order to be a man must have the basic and essential attributes: courage, valor, strength,stamina and endurance. This is absolute must.If men lacks these essential qualities and spend all the time working on computer, playing computer games, reading in library and what not essentially they are reduced to nerds and then it becomes truly pathetic.Today the computer geeks takes pleasure in playing kubg fu in computer. They see Bruce Leemoves simulated in the computer. But none of them can even do a half flying kick. Offcourse these nerds willknow all the theories of martial arts but cant even demonstate a single move, now what kind of stinking rottengarbage is that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Whom are we kidding here. Offcourse in this age of nerds these girlie guys will still make lot of money and given the obsession for the feminine short of guys and the pampering they are receiving from todays girls they seem to be at the top of the world. But the fact is these girlie men lack the attributes what truly makesa man and it is extremely sad that due to the quirk of these age Nerds and Geeks are getting such high respect.Sometimes when I see that the past age of courage and valor getting replaced by age of cowardice, nerdiness andgeekiness I wonder are humans beings really making progress or are we descending fast into an endless dungeon offragility and weakness.
 
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DominicConnor
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July 21st, 2004, 3:46 pm

The point is all throughout the history men of valor and courage have been eulogized and earned respect .......how can it suddenly change in this age?Investigative jorunalism, that's why.Most stories of heroism are terrible exaggerations. You hear of great leaders slaying vast number of their enemies.Yeah right.Strange that we hear so much of the leaders valour, ain't it ? Not likely to be objective reporting is it ?The most vomit inducing sight of the last year was Prince Charles at the D-Day ceremonies. The BBC interviewed a hero from the Pegasus bridge battle, 75% of his unit were killed in a critical fight to ensure the success of the landings. He then fought his way across Europe.He had about half the number of medals of some royal jerk, whose most dangerous exploit has been to sleep with ugly women.Ironically his mother had quite a dangerous job in WWII. He chickened out of every opportunity to see battle in the last 40 years.But the main point is a man in order to be a man must have the basic and essential attributes: courage, valor, strength,stamina and endurance. This is absolute must.Nah.A man is someone who deals with his limits and faces them squarely. There is always someone faster, harder or smarter than you, some will be female, others will be your enemies. A man is someone who can function effectively under such pressures. Getting fitter doesn't make you more of a man, taking out a mugger larger than you does.If men lacks these essential qualities and spend all the time working on computer, playing computer games, reading in library and what not essentially they are reduced to nerds and then it becomes truly pathetic.Actually, I at one point had to reduce my time spent learning to shoot because of some computer stuff. My view at the time was that computer controlled really impressive weapons like missiles.Today the computer geeks takes pleasure in playing kubg fu in computer. They see Bruce Leemoves simulated in the computer. But none of them can even do a half flying kick. You want to step outside and say that ?Whom are we kidding here. Offcourse in this age of nerds these girlie guys will still make lot of money and given the obsession for the feminine short of guys and the pampering they are receiving from todays girls they seem to be at the top of the world. But the fact is these girlie men lack the attributes what truly makes a man and it is extremely sad that due to the quirk of these age Nerds and Geeks are getting such high respect.Most humans would lose a straight fight with a tiger. But it is they that are getting extinct, not us. Humans have fought in groups for a long time, enough that our evolution is seriously optimised for such activities. In groups varying from mammoth hunters to the SAS, you find specialisation.In the British army, the greatest number of VCs is for strecther bearers. Going into very dagerous situations to save your mates is about as manly as it gets, but almost none were elite troops.Sometimes when I see that the past age of courage and valor getting replaced by age of cowardice, nerdiness and geekinessGive me 6 weeks and I could take 50 Wilmotters against 50 random blokes from medieval England. We'd win.I wonder are humans beings really making progress or are we descending fast into an endless dungeon of fragility and weakness.We'd win because we are stronger and smarter. Read up on the investigations of Europeans dug up from (say) 1400. They were mostly wimpy things, who died young because their bodies just fell apart from poor diet and continuous infections. Technology has made us stronger, not weaker.
 
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zerdna
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July 21st, 2004, 4:28 pm

QuoteBut the main point is a man in order to be a man must have the basic and essential attributes: courage, valor, strength, stamina and endurance. This is absolute must. Technically, the only thing a man must have is a penis. The rest of the list is pretty arbitrary. QuoteMost stories of heroism are terrible exaggerations...There is an overwhelming number of records of events where say Spartan goplits would go against the army 50-100 larger and win. "Anabasis" for example is a collection of some of those, where 10,000 goplits repeatedly beat 500,000 to a million armies of Persians fighting their way home through half of Asia.QuoteGive me 6 weeks and I could take 50 Wilmotters against 50 random blokes from medieval England. We'd win. Most people in Western societies don't realise the level of their inefficiency in a fight, probably because they fight very infrequently. You have to hit hard and into the right spot against a fit opponent, and 99% cannot even hit hard - hit weakly, break hands, or both. Adequate physical conditioning is hardly possible in 6 weeks. More importantly, an adequate disrespect for human life, including your own is not acquirable in 6 weeks. It is not like a gun that you pick up and fire after 10 minutes of training.
 
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tabris
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July 21st, 2004, 5:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: samudraBut the main point is a man in order to be a man must have the basic and essential attributes: courage, valor, strength,stamina and endurance. This is absolute must.If men lacks these essential qualities and spend all the time working on computer, playing computer games, reading in library and what not essentially they are reduced to nerds and then it becomes truly pathetic.I am not familiar with European history but I must say that In Chinese History, most of the war heros or in your case "manly man" that have attributes of courage, valor, strength, stamina, and endurance were Generals who "admired" the ability of their leaders and strategists. Of these, the well known strategists such as Zhuge Liang were respected by the "manly man's" be it soldier, generals, or even their leaders. They were often times described to actually lack the "physical attributes" such as muscles and strength yet able to command respect and fear with their intelligence. So in this regard of what the main point of being a man, I would actually agree with Zerdena. The list is rather arbitrary.Whether it is pathetic for people to spend time on computer, playing games, and reading also seems somewhat arbitrary. Different people work on computer, different people play computer games, different people read in the library. I remember race car drivers actually simulates races by practicing on video games and of course football players spends countless hours playing Madden 2004 (soon to be 2005). Are they also reduced to being nerds? Maybe you would like to call Ray Lewis (Baltimore Ravens) a nerd for going out and actually caim he plays video games at least 5 hours a day during off season on a recent ESPN documentary about video games.
 
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samudra
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July 21st, 2004, 5:23 pm

DCFC,First of all I am not necessarily referring to the ability to develop the fighting capabilitiesto be a man. Basically I am trying to point out the fact that a man or a woman must develop allround capabilities.Now in our times given majority of the people are working in the service sector and therefore doesnt needphysical capabilites doesnt necessarily mean that these are irrelevant or can be ignored.The personality of a person is sum total of all attributes. Physical strength also develops the mentaltoughness ( for this to really develop bodybuilding is necessary along with techniques like kung fu, akido,boxing, judo etc which develops the functional strength).The importance of physical toughness can be very easily proved by the total dominance of say British rule in India. The strength and toughness of the British people ensured that just a handful could rule a whole subcontinentfor 200 years. The same thing happened before with the Mughals.Analytical capabilities and intellectual pursuits are fine but without strength and courage a true man will never emerge.Technology like computers which largely results in more use of the analytical capabilities results in neglect and disrespect for the fundamental traits like strength. This offcourse is not the fault of technology.Offcourse the middle aged man cannt match the technology might of today and in a hypothetical situation the girlie geeks and nerd using technology can easily outwit them. But in an arm to arm combat or a confrontation where level playing field is restored the middle aged manwill smash the girlie man into smithereens.Technology is giving us comforts, making our life easy but at the same time generating a large % of fragile and weakgirlie men, which is probably not good. This is not the fault of technology offcourse but the laziness that comes with comfort and the trend today in our society where the girlie types are getting lot of respect( an aberration from what happened in the future).Z,I totally agree with you on physical conditioning. Flexibility and fuctional strength the core ofphysical conditioning in possible only by martial arts, judo, boxing, taekowondo etc. For a man to be a manit is absolutely essentiall one of these is mastered. unquatifiable,I agree with your assertions.
 
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Clopinette
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July 22nd, 2004, 10:27 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaQuoteTechnically, the only thing a man must have is a penis. The rest of the list is pretty arbitrary. Be careful Zerdna, if you start being too technical Samudra could call you a nerd
Last edited by Clopinette on July 21st, 2004, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DominicConnor
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July 22nd, 2004, 11:53 am

Technically, the only thing a man must have is a penis. The rest of the list is pretty arbitrary. These days I wonder if even that is qualification...There is an overwhelming number of records of events where say Spartan goplits would go against the army 50-100 larger and win.Indeed, but there's a lot of crap about as well. Look at the Crusades.Most people in Western societies don't realise the level of their inefficiency in a fight, probably because they fight very infrequently. Agreed. However, I don't see it as a "western" thing, but an artifact of living in communities.In populous socieities "fighting" is a social ritual with a bit of shoving, and little real attempt to do serious harm. If you're the sort of person who goes for the kill in every mildly physical situation, you probably won't live long enough to breed.You have to hit hard and into the right spot against a fit opponent, and 99% cannot even hit hard - hit weakly, break hands, or both. Agreed, and you have to hit them again, as from above, people are relcutant to follow through. The best time to kick a man is when he's down, preferably more than once, and in his head. However, this is not a modern thing, but dates from as long as we have lived in stable communities.Adequate physical conditioning is hardly possible in 6 weeks.I picked 6 weeks as is is the basic training period of the British army. However of course, grossly unfit people don't apply or get past the medical.In 6 weeks you can desensitise most people from reluctance to hurt, and get them to basic competence with a firearm and knife.Of course you have to be in a position where you can coerce them, to get this done quickly against random people. You must also be prepared to lose a few in the process. I said "win", I didn't say be popular. "Fighting" in society is actually about popularity not hurting poeple. You must be hard enough that you don't become a target, but no so hard that the friends of your victims gang up on you.More importantly, an adequate disrespect for human life, including your own is not acquirable in 6 weeks.I disagree, again because many people have fought effectively with this level of training.It is not like a gun that you pick up and fire after 10 minutes of training. After a sum total of about 20 hours, one of the bunch of people I was teaching to shoot went to change the target. For no good reason I just said "3 rounds in the target in front, in your own time fire". Without thought all 4 picked up their guns, and only my shriek of horror stopped them kiling one of their mates.Dumbest thing I ever did, still makes me cringe.It is not like a gun that you pick up and fire after 10 minutes of training. A useful thing about guns, as shown above, is that they don't requitre much to desenisitise you.You can do the same thing with any form of combat, just takes a bit longer.In martial arts, one spends hours doing the same set of moves over and over again. By the ends they aren't "fighting", any more then opening a car door is some sort of engineering. They just happen. The whole idea is not to think about the detailed stuff, leaving your mind free to concentrate on the big picture.
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