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Cuchulainn
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

December 30th, 2018, 12:22 am

 I think people believe that we’ve been at war too long and t

People don't go to war; politicians send people to war.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

December 30th, 2018, 12:23 am

Jefferson was president in the 19th century. That quote was from his first inaugural
The world has moved on a bit since then.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

December 30th, 2018, 12:34 am

The Islamic State no longer exists as a territorial entity.
Did it ever?
 
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bearish
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

December 30th, 2018, 12:37 am

So his inaugural speech was delivered a couple of months into the 19th century, but I will make the claim that Jeffersonian views were solidly 18th century. But, either way, I’m glad you’re comfortable there. As Cuch points out, many of the rest of us have moved on.
 
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bearish
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 7th, 2019, 11:50 am

Reality imposed itself again into Trump land. Now the story is, if Bolton is to be believed, that no US troops will be withdrawn from Syria until Erdogan promises not to kill our Kurdish “allies” there. As if!
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 7th, 2019, 1:29 pm

no one I know wanted to be in syria in the first place, much stay there.
There doesn't ever seem to have been a well-defined mission statement.
Not sure why bearish put quotes around allies when he called the kurds our allies. He's trying to make a point, but I have no idea which of several possible points that would be.
Obama would have been the one who made the alliance with the Kurds.
If Turkey is likely to massacre the syrian kurds, it might be an idea to consider whether we should be NATO allies with the turks. And whether Turkey should be allowed to join the EU.
Turkey has a long history of genocide, with the best known probably when they killed half of the Armenians. The kurds helped with that one because the turks told the kurds they could have the armenians' stuff if the kurds killed the armenians. That's in Rummel, Death by Government.
Turkey also committed genocide against the Pontic Greeks and assyrian christians early in the 20th century.

I think the kurds should have their own country, but they need to do that by themselves
"Hereditary bondsmen! Know ye not. Who would be free themselves must strike the blow?"

Jim Webb has been mentioned as a possible SecDef, and he would seem to agree with the president on stupid wars, trade agreements, and illegal immigration. He was Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, left the GOP under Bush 1, and was a 1-term Democratic Senator. He ran against Hillary in the 2016 primaries but got no traction
 
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bearish
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 7th, 2019, 2:43 pm

In the era of Trump the US does not have allies. Temporary transactional relationships, sure. Like, we bomb people in Yemen to do more trade with the Saudis. Perhaps with a vain hope that Trump may get to judge a camel beauty contest one day, because, you know, humps!
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 7th, 2019, 3:31 pm

yemen is also a continuation of an Obama administration policy
The current civil war has been going on since 2015, and a frequent theory seems to be that the Saudis were upset by the Iran deal so Obama helped them out with the yemen war to make it up to them
The US shouldn't be involved in Yemen any more than it should be involved in Syria. It seems to be a 4-way civil war, with 2 of the 4 sides being a  Saudi-Iraq proxy war. If the main issue is shia vs sunni,  my solution would be to split yemen. The lines this time seem to be east-west not north-south, so it wouldn't be the same partition as before
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 11th, 2019, 11:09 am

Pentagon Pushes Forward on Syria Pullout
“Nothing has changed,” one defense official said. “We don’t take orders from Bolton.”
 
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bearish
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 11th, 2019, 2:35 pm

Pentagon Pushes Forward on Syria Pullout
“Nothing has changed,” one defense official said. “We don’t take orders from Bolton.”
That’s amusing. So you have Bolton and Pompeo waltzing around the Middle East trying to get people to listen to their sincere implorations. Which turns out to be all lies and hot air, given that they evidently have no clue what Trump is really up to.
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 11th, 2019, 5:02 pm

lol, I assume you mean this
Pompeo, at site of Obama's address to Muslim world, rebukes his legacy: 'Age of self-inflicted American shame is over'
Secretary Pompeo was speaking for President Trump and for America
Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Thursday launched an astonishing rebuke of former President Barack Obama’s foreign policy at the site of Obama’s famous speech to the Muslim world -- declaring that “the age of self-inflicted American shame is over.”
Pompeo delivered his remarks in Cairo, where Obama famously spoke in 2009 and promised a new beginning with Muslim and Arab countries. He was criticized by conservatives for placing too much blame on the U.S. for strife in the region.
Pompeo, while not mentioning Obama by name, said that “it was here, in this city, another American stood before you” and “told you that radical Islamist terrorism does not stem from ideology.”
“He told you that 9/11 led my country to abandon its ideals, particularly in the Middle East,” he said at the American University in Cairo. “He told you that the United States and the Muslim world needed ‘a new beginning.’ The results of these misjudgments have been dire.”
 
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bearish
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 12th, 2019, 12:58 am

There was also the small matter of Bolton's deeply embarrassing Turkey visit. Trump told Erdogan that he is free to kill the Kurds in Syria and Erdogan wanted none of Bolton's objections. To the point of publically mocking him while he was there.
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 12th, 2019, 7:14 am

what in your mind is the difference between the yemeni war (which you seem to regard as bad) and the syrian war (which you seem to regard as good)
They're both part of the Iran–Saudi Arabia proxy conflict
Image
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

January 12th, 2019, 8:12 am

Anyhoo, killing kurds (and other groups) is what the turks do
We've all discussed it before
Peace loving turks use chemical weapon against kurdish civilians
at the time of that particular massacre, the left turned a blind eye because Turkey had been involved sending a flotilla of boats to gaza.

If Turkey does things like this, why are we NATO allies with them?
But we all know that if Trump had Turkey kicked out of NATO, you'd run around waving your arms and screaming that Trump was driving Turkey into the arms of Russia/China/Iran.

I would support Kurdish independence, with a Kurdish homeland consisting of some or all of the kurdish-majority regions in Syria/Iraq/Iran/Turkey, but they have to get there themselves.
Hereditary bondsmen! Know ye not
Who would be free themselves must strike the blow?

Some of us suggested a Kurdish homeland when Iraq erupted into chaos following Gulf War Part Deux, because Iraq was an artificial multi-ethnic entity created by the British and French drawing lines on  a map in the secret (1916) Sykes-Picot agreement during WW1. The same is true of Syria.

The kurds themselves don't seem to have completely clean hands. There have been reports that they've been only too happy to let Islamic State cleanse the kurdish lands of both chrisians and yazidis, and the kurdish role in the armenian genocide is well-known (the turks marched the armenians into kurdish lands where the kurds killed the armenians because the turks told them they could have the armenians' stuff if they so did)
So let's say a homeland for the kurds but the yazidis and the christians get homelands also
 
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ppauper
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Re: Syrian War Thread....

February 3rd, 2019, 8:19 pm

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