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Marsden
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 12:53 pm

QuoteAn Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 officers and operatives of the Central Intelligence Agency on charges that they seized an Egyptian cleric on a Milan street two years ago and flew him to Egypt for questioning, Italian prosecutors and investigators said Friday.Now, I'm thinking that perhaps some people will feel an inclination to miss-place the irony I intend with this: the irony I intend is that the US/CIA is acting as a terrorist organization in "fighting terrorism;" but the irony I suspect some slope-brows might take is that Italy is "not confronting terrorism," because they are letting themselves become upset over something as insignificant as a kidnapping by foreign agents on their sovereign territory, and forgetting that we are all in grave DANGER and must cede some of our rights to our maximum leaders so that they can protect us ... even if those maximum leaders happen to represent another nation.
Last edited by Marsden on June 24th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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fars1d3s
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 5:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteAn Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 officers and operatives of the Central Intelligence Agency on charges that they seized an Egyptian cleric on a Milan street two years ago and flew him to Egypt for questioning, Italian prosecutors and investigators said Friday.the irony I intend is that the US/CIA is acting as a terrorist organization in "fighting terrorism;" Calling the US/CIA a terrorist organization is certainly heretical in the US, but probably acceptable in the Arab world. US foreign policy needs some major revision.
 
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gc
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 6:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: fars1d3sCalling the US/CIA a terrorist organization is certainly heretical in the US, but probably acceptable in the Arab world. US foreign policy needs some major revision.Not only the Arab world... it is in Brasil since 1964 when the CIA helped to put General Branco in power in Brasil, in Bolivia around the same time, Argentina in the seventies, in Chile since September 1973. And it goes on until recent times... Does anyone remember the Contras-gate? And Haiti? Not to talk about Cuba and the Bay of Pigs invation....Is replacing a democratically elected president (e.g. Allende) with a puppet who remove any freedom, what the American call democracy? Is this the freedom that the Americans are giving to the world? As far as I'm concerned, thanks a lot, they can keep it for themselves. Being European, I'd rather have a legal system I can trust rather than a cow-boy attitute to rightgeousness.Maybe for the first time, I'm proud of the Italian law system. As Marsden says, America cannot continue to profess respect for laws, and at the same time destroy them, as in Latin America, Arab countries, Far East...Gunatanamo is a good example!gc
 
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Marsden
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 6:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gcAs Marsden says, America cannot continue to profess respect for laws, and at the same time destroy them, as in Latin America, Arab countries, Far East...Actually, I did not say this. Unfortunately, I think America can and will continue to profess respect for laws and at the same time destroy them.
 
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player
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 7:29 pm

Have to agree with the Italians on this one.....
 
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Etuka
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 7:36 pm

Unlike the Italians, we plucky Brits know our place...
 
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Anthis
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 7:49 pm

Thank god there are still some judges with principles and sense of dignity and honour. Certainly knee pads havent been desinged for them.And i am sure this "kidnapping" case is not the only one. I ve seen on tv that many more such operations have taken place.
 
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farmer
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 7:58 pm

If I knew other people liked lobster, and I liked steak, I wouldn't try to tell them steak is lobster.Similarly, it just makes you look silly to call CIA agents "terrorists." The CIA already has a name: "The CIA."QuoteAn Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 officers and operatives of the Central Intelligence Agency on charges that they seized an Egyptian cleric on a Milan street two years ago and flew him to Egypt for questioning, Italian prosecutors and investigators said Friday.Did they behead him? I must have missed that one...
Last edited by farmer on June 24th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Anthis
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 8:04 pm

What the hell have you been drinking pal?
 
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Marsden
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 9:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerIf I knew other people liked lobster, and I liked steak, I wouldn't try to tell them steak is lobster.Similarly, it just makes you look silly to call CIA agents "terrorists." The CIA already has a name: "The CIA."QuoteAn Italian judge has ordered the arrest of 13 officers and operatives of the Central Intelligence Agency on charges that they seized an Egyptian cleric on a Milan street two years ago and flew him to Egypt for questioning, Italian prosecutors and investigators said Friday.Did they behead him? I must have missed that one...I've been thinking that in Nazi Germany, there were undoubtably matter-of-fact-speaking, rational-sounding Germans who would defend or divert attention from the atrocities of the Nazis, much as Stephen Murray, tpaper and others so often speak for the Bitch Administration.I can imagine the Nazi Era Stephen Murray/tpaper-types (Good Germans):Someone: "They dragged a dozen Jewish merchants from their shops in broad daylight!"Good German: "'They' are the rightful government of Germany. You seem to have difficulty remembering that fact."Someone: "But they just dragged them away, with no charges or anything!"Good German (in an imperious tone): "And did they use their blood in a religious ritual? I must have missed that ..."By the way, one day you should teach yourself a little elementary logic, Stephen. It really does become useful an awful lot.
 
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farmer
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 9:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenBy the way, one day you should teach yourself a little elementary logic, Stephen. It really does become useful an awful lot.Sure, everything is equal: CIA = terrorists = Nazis. That's defininitely very "elementary." And useful, too, as long as one only plays dumb in support of the side of an argument one wishes to promote...
 
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Marsden
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 25th, 2005, 9:49 pm

Sort of like (X=>Y) => (Y=>X), Stephen, as you like to argue?
 
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brontosaurus
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 26th, 2005, 1:15 am

QuoteI can imagine the Nazi Era Stephen Murray/tpaper-types (Good Germans):Someone: "They dragged a dozen Jewish merchants from their shops in broad daylight!"Good German: "'They' are the rightful government of Germany. You seem to have difficulty remembering that fact."Someone: "But they just dragged them away, with no charges or anything!"Good German (in an imperious tone): "And did they use their blood in a religious ritual? I must have missed that ..."Marsden,As someone who has experienced the 3rd generation after-effects of German apathy, I must confess to having feelings of f**k em. After all, it is rare to find a Muslim preacher condemning suicide bombing, indeed, 90% of these guys are my sworn enemies. How innaccurate is that?But I am glad that you brought this article up, and I hope that this string won't degenrate into a dog fight. I would like to ask you this: Do you really feel that your analogy is 100% accurate. In particular, this part:QuoteGood German (in an imperious tone): "And did they use their blood in a religious ritual? I must have missed that ..."The blood libel stereotypes were baseless anti-jewish propaganda. Would you say the same about the muslim/terrorist stereotypes? Is it baseless feeling I have when I get off the bus in jerusalem. I know that this 12 year old may be just going to school, but she might also have been indoctrinated by some guy named Abu Omar.Like I said, I hope this doesn't degenrate into a dog fight.
 
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farmer
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 26th, 2005, 7:29 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: EtukaUnlike the Italians, we plucky Brits know our place...Sure, Yousef Magied Al Molqi dumped an American vacationer in a wheelchair, over the side of the cruise ship Achille Lauro. The Italians set him free a few years later "on good behavior" for being a "model prisoner."QuoteOriginally posted on: March 6, 1996Italy's foreign minister, Susanna Agnelli, said al-Molqi's temporary release fell within Italian law. Al-Molqi, 34, was sentenced to 30 years in prison for hijacking the cruise ship Achille Lauro, shooting passenger Leon Klinghoffer, who was in a wheelchair, and ordering one of the ship's employees to push him and the chair overboard.QuoteOriginally posted on: March 4, 1996Bassam al-Asker, one of the hijackers, was granted parole in 1991. Ahmad Marrouf al-Assadi, another accomplice, disappeared in 1991 while on parole. Four others, including the mastermind, Abu Abbas, were convicted in absentia and remain at large.Plus, you will remember that Carlos the Jackal, as well as who knows how many other terrorists, gangsters, and criminals of every stripe, were allowed a free pass around that whole continent like no one cared.QuoteOriginally posted by: BrontosaurusDo you really feel that your analogy is 100% accurate.Germans sent citizens to the gas chamber for the crime of banking. The CIA took this cleric for questioning, in order to protect civilians like Marsden from being blown up on TV. Union soldiers shot Confederate soldiers dead at the Battle of Bull Run. Stephen Heller shot dead a home-invasion robber on the morning of June 16th. Joran Van der Sloot was held for questioning in Aruba under suspicion of murder. What do all these things have in common? There was no jury trial. They are all NAZIS!
Last edited by farmer on June 25th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Anthis
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Italy confronts terrorism

June 26th, 2005, 10:00 am

QuoteThe CIA took this cleric for questioning, in order to protect civilians like Marsden from being blown up on TVFirst since when interrogation is called "questioning"?Second such actions dont have the legal cover of an arrest. People are kidnapped, sent to "neutral zones" like camps in Afghanistan, Iraq, Guantanamo, where there is no jurisdiction and no application of any sense of law and order, or to countries with limited or non existent sensitivities about human rights, where they are interrogated and tortured by any means and methods. Third who granted the right to armed and security forces officers (thats what CIA is) of one country, to plan organise and execute operations with armed men on the soil of another sovereign country, no need to mention that Italy is a Nato ally, without the knowledge and permission of country's sovereign government and without the cooperation of the local security forces. By international law this can be considered as casus belli.Let me put it in another way. The Italian forces were not capable to arrest this guy?Thats the reason why a praise the action of this Italian judge.
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