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JWD
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Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 12:51 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 11:38 am

This thread is being started to discuss what we can and should do about global warming. The IPCC calls this “mitigation”. This thread assumes the conclusions of the mainstream science computer models that average global warming will continue, with uncertain amounts partially depending on assumed scenarios of human behavior. There are now three threads on Global Warming, mirroring the IPCC division. Please try to use the appropriate thread for your comments on global warming. Thanks.1. Global Warming - Scientific Aspects [started by TraderJoe on 6/29/05]http://www.wilmott.com/messageview.cfm? ... did=291762. Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation) [THIS THREAD]3. Global Warming - Impacts, Vulnerability, Adaptation [started by JanDash on 7/22/05]http://www.wilmott.com/messageview.cfm? ... eferencesA really good place to start, as usual, is the 2001 IPCC Synthesis Report. Stephen Schneider’s website has information and various links to go to the direct sources: http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Cl ... t.html.The original IPCC document on mitigation is a large volume with many contributors which can be downloaded free from http://www.ipcc.ch/index.htm :Climate Change 2001: Mitigation Contribution of Working Group III to the Third Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)Bert Metz, Ogunlade Davidson, Rob Swart and Jiahua Pan (Eds.)Cambridge University Press, UK. pp 700 ----------
Last edited by JWD on July 21st, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jan Dash, PhD

Editor, WSPC Encyclopedia of Climate Change and Finance, Economics, Policy (2019):

Book 2nd Edition:
http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/ ... 71241_0053

Editor, Climate Portal:
http://climate.uu-uno.org
 
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TraderJoe
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Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 3:15 pm

Here's a list of some things we can do/are being done:Emissions trading Alternative car fuels - so-called hydrogen technology Anti-pollutant technologies such as more fuel efficient and cleaner burning cars, power stations and factoriesMore investment in alternate forms of energy - hydro, nuclear (fission & fusion), wind, tide, geothermal, solarDepositing CO2 emissions undergroundTJ
Last edited by TraderJoe on July 17th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Sashka
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Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 4:22 pm

My questions are: 1. How much money is it prudent to invest in mitigation?2. What exactly should we mitigate?We have two huge uncertainties:1. Uncertainty in the projected warming.2. Uncertainty of the potential mitigation impact (see IPCC report fig. SPM-7)QuoteThere is a wide band of uncertainty in the amount of warming that would result from any stabilized greenhouse gas concentrationIn reality, things are even more uncertain than stated.3. It is uncertain how much we can reduce CO2 concentrations following Kyoto and alike compared to the "business as usual" scenario.4. It is uncertain that equilibrium CO2 concentration exisits. It is possible that Kyoto like measures will just reduce the trend of CO2 concentration growth by X ppm/year. How certain is the impact of that reduction on climate?5. It is uncertain that there are enough fossil fuels stored inside the planet to take CO2 to those horrendous levels. If we run out of oil 50 years from now we might be very happy to have a slightly warmer environment.6. It is uncertain that CO2 is the primary culprit.7. Even if CO2 is the primary culprit, it is uncertain that we'll get the biggest bang for our buck by fighting CO2 emissions.Given all of the above, I'd like to know: A. What is it that we do know for certain that is worth spending 5 trillion dollars to protect against.B. Could there be a better way to spend such amount of money?For example, even if you believe that Antarctica will probably melt and rize the sea level by 50 meters, would it not be more prudent to spend money building dambs if and when it's necessary instead of spending spending the money now for an uncertain reason with an uncertain effect?An analogy with a very expensive out of the money call with a junk rated counterparty is tempting.
 
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bashirf
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Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 7:37 pm

In addition to the uncertainty relating to climate change and human efforts to control CO2 emmision there is another man-made greenhouse gas that is mainly producted in the gut of livestock annimals - Methane.How can we reduce sheep's production of methane is still questionable unfortunately. One strategy is to change their feed consumption in order to make them less stress (am not jocking).
 
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Sashka
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Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 7:54 pm

In addition to the uncertainty relating to climate change and human efforts to control CO2 emmision there is another man-made greenhouse gas that is mainly producted in the gut of livestock annimals - Methane.I was alluding to this (among other things):2. What exactly should we mitigate?I'll be away from computer for a couple of days.
 
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TraderJoe
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Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 18th, 2005, 8:41 pm

Sashka: If we run out of oil 50 years from now we might be very happy to have a slightly warmer environment.Who's we? Please do not include me in your warped scenarios. You speak only for yourself.Sashka, you show an amazing amount of oblivious regard for reality in your posts on global warming and seem to forget just about everything the second you read it. There are other effects besides an increase in temperature. These include massive crop failures and increasing frequency and intensity of tropical cyclones, flooding and other climatic conditions detrimental to human life. How much is our home worth Sashka? 5 trillion? 500 trillion? I would have thought of it as priceless. Cheers.
Last edited by TraderJoe on July 17th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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JWD
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Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 2:01 am

Here are excerpts of a bulletin from the Union of Concerned Scientists for one thing we can do on Fri. 7/22/05 regarding global warming: Watch a TV show!Greetings,We thought you’d want to know about a chance to learn more about the work we do from the comfort of your own living room! UCS President Kevin Knobloch is scheduled to appear on the PBS television program NOW to talk about the growing problem of political interference in science this Friday, July 22, 2005. The hour-long program is expected to focus on one well-known example of scientific abuse: the Bush administration’s long history of manipulating, suppressing, and distorting the science on global warming. Last month, the New York Times reported that Phil Cooney, a former oil industry lobbyist working for the White House, edited scientific climate change reports to significantly exaggerate uncertainty about the science behind global warming. Two days after the Times article, Cooney resigned and took a job with Exxon-Mobil. The Restoring Scientific Integrity campaignTo date, more than 6,700 scientists, including 49 Nobel Laureates, have signed a statement decrying the current situation as unprecedented and calling for change.Visit the UCS website to learn more about efforts to prevent the abuse of science. We encourage you to tune into the NOW program this Friday evening – or if you’ve already made plans, set your VCR or TiVo! Sometime next week, you can watch the broadcast and read the program transcript online in the NOW archive.Thanks for your support of UCS! ----------
Last edited by JWD on July 20th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jan Dash, PhD

Editor, WSPC Encyclopedia of Climate Change and Finance, Economics, Policy (2019):

Book 2nd Edition:
http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/ ... 71241_0053

Editor, Climate Portal:
http://climate.uu-uno.org
 
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Sashka
Posts: 109
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 3:11 am

To date, more than 6,700 scientists, including 49 Nobel Laureates, have signed a statement decrying the current situation as unprecedented and calling for change.In other words, for lack of arguments you propose to reslove the issue by voting? Look, no doubt these are all smart people who care and stuff. It doesn't mean they know enough or that they thought enough before signing. It doesn't matter who signed what. The arguments do matter and, quite honestly, on the subject of mitigation I don't see any.
 
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JWD
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Posts: 1309
Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 12:51 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 3:42 am

The mitigation idea is simply to watch the TV program to be better informed about real-world aspects of global warming policies. It’s a small step, but it’s concrete. The statement regards “Restoring Scientific Integrity in Policymaking” in the US. A connection with global warming is in the text of the UCS message I just quoted, but there are other science-related issues as well. The idea is to place oneself on record as a matter of conscience opposing the distortions of science by the current US administration, which they’ve done in order to promote various policies. Go to the UCS website to get more information, if you’re interested: http://www.ucsusa.org/global_environmen ... ageID=1320 .Also, Sashka, please see your private message.-----------
Last edited by JWD on July 20th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jan Dash, PhD

Editor, WSPC Encyclopedia of Climate Change and Finance, Economics, Policy (2019):

Book 2nd Edition:
http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/ ... 71241_0053

Editor, Climate Portal:
http://climate.uu-uno.org
 
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exneratunrisk
Posts: 3559
Joined: April 20th, 2004, 12:25 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 6:46 am

In 1972 a book, "Limits to Growth" was published by "The Club of Rome". It challanged one of the core assumptions of economoc theory ("infinite resources").What do we think now? Fair warning? They were one of the best known warning voices. But most of their predictions did not happen.Some say: stupid. I, as many others rather believe, they were not fulfilled BECAUSE of this warnings. 12 mio copies of this book, in 37 languages were published.The key message: change poltics - the sooner the better. And this happened. Unpredictable measures in many facets were set.I do not know, whether this is a good testimonial for the global warming discussion.But if, the meta measure: WARN!!! (and do not ask whether every detail is "proven").
 
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JWD
Topic Author
Posts: 1309
Joined: March 2nd, 2005, 12:51 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 10:54 am

Hi exneratunrisk,You say: The key message: change poltics .. I do not know, whether this is a good testimonial for the global warming discussion. You’re absolutely correct. That’s one reason why the UCS initiative, which will be explained on the NOW TV show tomorrow Fri. July 22, is important. The topics “Potential limits to growth, natural resource depletion, overpopulation, Club of Rome history …” would be great for another Forum thread! Would you like to start it?---------
Last edited by JWD on July 20th, 2005, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jan Dash, PhD

Editor, WSPC Encyclopedia of Climate Change and Finance, Economics, Policy (2019):

Book 2nd Edition:
http://www.worldscientific.com/doi/abs/ ... 71241_0053

Editor, Climate Portal:
http://climate.uu-uno.org
 
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NamelessWonder
Posts: 170
Joined: June 27th, 2005, 7:31 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 11:09 pm

how about using spraying some chemical which will react with the greenhouse gases in an endothermic reaction. Hopefully the product will not be toxic to life. Then we can try and precipitate the product with rain etc.
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Have you been PM'ing with farmer? He suggested firing anticoolant out of a water cannon .
 
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NamelessWonder
Posts: 170
Joined: June 27th, 2005, 7:31 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 11:24 pm

shucks! somebody already thought of it. but why anticoolant for solving global warming? ohhhhhhh ok. it was farmer....
 
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TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

Global Warming - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

July 21st, 2005, 11:27 pm

You're not farmer are you?
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