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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

March 30th, 2018, 12:32 pm

bearish wrote:
ppauper wrote:
fight song changed
“till the stock of the Puritans die” was altered to “till the stars in the firmament die”


Can we perhaps infer that the stock of the Puritans has died?

They have no more cows?
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

April 16th, 2018, 1:40 pm

Naked HARVARD Student Hallucinating On Drugs In Street Taken Down By Police...

Around 9 p.m. on Friday

Selorm Ohene, 21. Is Ohene an irish name?
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

April 16th, 2018, 1:51 pm

ppauper wrote:
Naked HARVARD Student Hallucinating On Drugs In Street Taken Down By Police...

Around 9 p.m. on Friday

Selorm Ohene, 21. Is Ohene an irish name?

His parents were from Hungary but they changed the name to make it sound more American.
 
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ppauper
Posts: 68811
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

June 17th, 2018, 6:26 am

ppauper wrote:
ppauper wrote:
The Justice Department Is Investigating Harvard’s Admissions Practices
allegations that they discriminate against asian-americans

not cooperating

harvard is being sued by a group calling itself "Students for Fair Admissions (SFFA)" who allege anti-Asian discrimination,

It's a zero-sum game. If you want a larger percentage of group X, that means that other groups will have smaller percentages.
If they went to race-blind admissions, Harvard would likely be majority Asian.
Is it right to tell an asian applicant that he (or she) can't get in because Harvard already has enough asians? (ok, they won't say that, but that's the reason)
If the argument for affirmative action is to right past wrongs, I don't think too many chinamen owned slaves in the US, and most hispanics (who are discriminated in favor of by harvard) weren't the victims of historic racism in the US, since they've only fairly recently immigrated to the US. Like the Asians.
It's actually pretty shocking if you think about it, asians immigrate to the US and suffer institutional racism even in the 21st century.
I'm not sure that there's that much difference between Harvard in this respect and somewhere like Malaysia which puts a cap on the number of ethnic chinese Malaysians who can go to university in order to set aside places for ethnic malays
 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

July 5th, 2018, 5:41 am

 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

September 7th, 2018, 6:03 am

harvard has a quota for asians but not for kennedys
I came across this old gem

As it had been at Milton [Academy], Spanish was the course that gave Teddy the most difficulty at Harvard. For the others, he would muddle through with C’s, he thought, but as the final examination approached, he felt in danger of failing both the test and the course, which would render him ineligible for varsity football in the fall, an intolerable prospect.
Knowing he could not pass the examination himself, he arranged to have a friend [Bill Frate], much more proficient in the language, take it for him, signing Teddy’s name to the booklet.
As it happened, however, the graduate student assigned as proctor for the Spanish examination that day was personally acquainted with the student whom Teddy had recruited as his stand-in. When the stand-in, who did exceedingly well on the test, handed in the booklet, the proctor saw that he’d signed it “Edward M. Kennedy.”
Perhaps no more than an hour later, [Kennedy and Frate] were both called to the dean’s office and expelled. They were told they could apply for readmission in a year or two if they behaved themselves. That was not the most severe punishment Harvard imposed, but it was typical in serious cases.
 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

September 11th, 2018, 8:42 am

 
 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 14th, 2018, 10:16 am

 
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bearish
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 14th, 2018, 9:36 pm

There are some hard questions there. The first one ought to (but won't) be, what about the preferential treatment of legacies?
 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 15th, 2018, 6:05 am

you're trying to create a smokescreen, by showing that harvard discriminates in favor of the offspring of alumni and faculty as well as against asians.
The difference would be that discriminating against asians is against the law.
The big losers because of legacies are non-legacy whites

There are also large set-asides for athletes, who are disproportionately african-american. The Ivy League may not have athletic scholarships, but they do give the admissions office a list of athletes whom they would like admitted

Then-Senator Hubert Humphrey, who went on to become LBJ's VP and the 1968 nominee ("Dump the Hump"), famously said of the 1964 Civil Rights Act,
"It the Senator can find in Title VII … any language which provides that an employer will have to hire on the basis of percentage or quota related to color, race, religion, or national origin, I will start eating the pages one after another, because it is not in there."

The Hump's promises notwithstanding, the 1964 Civil Rights Act did lead to quotas, even if they were not in the text.
We as a society have to decide what racial equality means.
Does it mean that we have quotas and racial set-asides at schools like Harvard?
Or does it mean that we are race-blind and a black student and an asian student (and even a white student) with the same grades and the same extra-curriculars have the same likelhood of getting into a school like Harvard, because that sure as heck isn't the case right now.

Instead, we have the absurd situation where Senator Pocahontas had to lie and pretend to be Native American to get a job at Harvard. Two wrongs don't make a right, Pocahontas.

It's 55 years since Martin Luther King, Jr, gave  that speech at the Lincoln Memorial, and yet schools like Harvard continue to judge applicants by the color of their skin rather than by the content of their character.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!"
 
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bearish
Posts: 3681
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 15th, 2018, 10:03 am

ppauper wrote:
you're trying to create a smokescreen, by showing that harvard discriminates in favor of the offspring of alumni and faculty as well as against asians.
The difference would be that discriminating against asians is against the law.
The big losers because of legacies are non-legacy whites

There are also large set-asides for athletes, who are disproportionately african-american. The Ivy League may not have athletic scholarships, but they do give the admissions office a list of athletes whom they would like admitted

Then-Senator Hubert Humphrey, who went on to become LBJ's VP and the 1968 nominee ("Dump the Hump"), famously said of the 1964 Civil Rights Act,
"It the Senator can find in Title VII … any language which provides that an employer will have to hire on the basis of percentage or quota related to color, race, religion, or national origin, I will start eating the pages one after another, because it is not in there."

The Hump's promises notwithstanding, the 1964 Civil Rights Act did lead to quotas, even if they were not in the text.
We as a society have to decide what racial equality means.
Does it mean that we have quotas and racial set-asides at schools like Harvard?
Or does it mean that we are race-blind and a black student and an asian student (and even a white student) with the same grades and the same extra-curriculars have the same likelhood of getting into a school like Harvard, because that sure as heck isn't the case right now.

Instead, we have the absurd situation where Senator Pocahontas had to lie and pretend to be Native American to get a job at Harvard. Two wrongs don't make a right, Pocahontas.

It's 55 years since Martin Luther King, Jr, gave  that speech at the Lincoln Memorial, and yet schools like Harvard continue to judge applicants by the color of their skin rather than by the content of their character.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!"


“The content of their character” is so vague as to be utterly unmeasurable, and thus totally open to manipulation. ”The same extra-curriculars” almost as much so. And while “grades” may give some appearance of comparability, in the absence of a common standard they really aren’t. Besides, in the case of Harvard and similar schools, they can fill their freshman class many times over with 4.0 applicants. There is plenty of hard evidence that SAT/ACT scores are strongly related to parental education and income, but they are at least objective and comparable measures of something, and so very tempting to use.
 
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ppauper
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Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 15th, 2018, 10:34 am

bearish wrote:
“The content of their character” is so vague as to be utterly unmeasurable, and thus totally open to manipulation.

I had hoped that you would have more respect for Dr King


bearish wrote:
There is plenty of hard evidence that SAT/ACT scores are strongly related to parental education and income, but they are at least objective and comparable measures of something, and so very tempting to use.


Harvard Class of 2019 by the Numbers

   Respondents who identify as Asian, but not including South Asian, reported higher overall SAT scores on average, with an overall best score of 2300 out of a possible 2400.
   The average best overall SAT score reported by white respondents was 2218; 2174 for respondents who are Hispanic or Latino; and 2149 for respondents who are black or African American.
   


SAT scores are just more of the same.
The average SAT score of Asian respondents was 151 points higher that that of black respondents and 124 points higher than  that of hispanic respondents
A black student and an asian student (and even a white student) with the same SAT scores do not have the same likelihood of getting into a school like Harvard

Legacies have higher average SAT scores than non-legacies.
 
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Paul
Posts: 8589
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 15th, 2018, 10:52 am

bearish wrote:
ppauper wrote:
you're trying to create a smokescreen, by showing that harvard discriminates in favor of the offspring of alumni and faculty as well as against asians.
The difference would be that discriminating against asians is against the law.
The big losers because of legacies are non-legacy whites

There are also large set-asides for athletes, who are disproportionately african-american. The Ivy League may not have athletic scholarships, but they do give the admissions office a list of athletes whom they would like admitted

Then-Senator Hubert Humphrey, who went on to become LBJ's VP and the 1968 nominee ("Dump the Hump"), famously said of the 1964 Civil Rights Act,
"It the Senator can find in Title VII … any language which provides that an employer will have to hire on the basis of percentage or quota related to color, race, religion, or national origin, I will start eating the pages one after another, because it is not in there."

The Hump's promises notwithstanding, the 1964 Civil Rights Act did lead to quotas, even if they were not in the text.
We as a society have to decide what racial equality means.
Does it mean that we have quotas and racial set-asides at schools like Harvard?
Or does it mean that we are race-blind and a black student and an asian student (and even a white student) with the same grades and the same extra-curriculars have the same likelhood of getting into a school like Harvard, because that sure as heck isn't the case right now.

Instead, we have the absurd situation where Senator Pocahontas had to lie and pretend to be Native American to get a job at Harvard. Two wrongs don't make a right, Pocahontas.

It's 55 years since Martin Luther King, Jr, gave  that speech at the Lincoln Memorial, and yet schools like Harvard continue to judge applicants by the color of their skin rather than by the content of their character.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today!"



“The content of their character” is so vague as to be utterly unmeasurable, and thus totally open to manipulation. 

It was a speech not a piece of legislation! 
 
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bearish
Posts: 3681
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: Harvard University: Seat of Dumbness

October 15th, 2018, 11:01 am

I have plenty of respect for Dr King, but this particular phrase (for good measure taken out of context) is not very helpful in solving practical problems.

Regarding legacy test scores, it would have been stunning if theirs were not (much) higher than non-legacy admits. They directly benefit from the high parental education effect and, statistically, also from high parental income. They also, by definition, do not include the much sought after first generation college bound student. Furthermore, while some groups of athletic admits routinely have very high test scores (e.g. women’s XC) there are a lot of non-legacy athletes that get in on pretty flimsy academic records, helping to drag the non-legacy average down.
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