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Cuchulainn
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

Global cooling be beneficial

ppauper
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

Ridiculously cold temps in the Northeast break records
it's so cold in RI that the governor has declared a state of emergency

snow waves in NY state! wiki sastrugi

Alan
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

This is interesting:

Cooling aerosols and changes in albedo counteract warming from CO2 and black carbon from forest bioenergy in Norway
... Here, we present a national-level climate impact analysis of stationary bioenergy systems in Norway based on wood-burning stoves and wood biomass-based district heating. We find that cooling aerosols and albedo offset 60–70% of total warming ...

If I read this right, the recent terrible forest fires in California were actually quite good for global warming reduction, as the emitted particulates really help cool things off. If the fires weren't so otherwise damaging, it would be kind of amusing.

So, a very nice environmentally friendly fuel is wood, as you get aerosols + it's renewable.

ppauper
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

cuch used to regale us with stories of the "Cash for Ash" scandal in Northern Ireland.
They wanted to increase the percentage of energy coming from renewables, so they offered a subsidy, but the subsidy was more than the cost of buying biomass, so according to cuch, people were buying enormous amounts of biomass and burning it just to get the subsidy. They certainly increased the percentage of energy coming from renewables, but it seems to have been in addition to other sources of energy rather than instead of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable ... ve_scandal

Alan
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

I missed that before -- thanks!

ppauper
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

a cold snap in the midwest
Coldest Arctic Outbreak in at Least Two Decades is Expected This Week in Parts of the Midwest
This bitter cold will be accompanied by strong winds at times Tuesday through Thursday, leading to life-threatening wind chills in the Midwest that could lead to frostbite on exposed skin in a matter of minutes. A large swath of the Midwest will have wind chills in the 30s, 40s and 50s below zero by Wednesday. A few spots in Minnesota and eastern North Dakota may see wind chills in the 60s below zero.
This may rival some of the coldest wind chills on record in Minnesota, using a wind chill scale adjusted in 2001, and may approach values seen rarely in Chicagoland, according to Dr. Brian Brettschneider, climatologist with the University of Alaska Fairbanks.

that was a pretty major change in the wind chill scale if -58$^{\circ}$ on the new scale was below -80$^{\circ}$ on the old scale

Cuchulainn
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

So, a very nice environmentally friendly fuel is wood, as you get aerosols + it's renewable.

Which is best? Apple is great and is a slow burner, willow burns very fast

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood ... d_372.html

Alan
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

So, a very nice environmentally friendly fuel is wood, as you get aerosols + it's renewable.

Which is best? Apple is great and is a slow burner, willow burns very fast

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood ... d_372.html

There's actually a very interesting issue here for California. Many of our periodic wildfires fires are sparked by trees falling on aging electrical transmission lines, in particular those owned by Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E). Due to the liability associated to that, PG&E just declared bankruptcy. Separately, a federal judge overseeing PG&E due to previous malfeasanceis is considering ordering PG&E to clear all the trees that might fall on the lines: link

Sounds reasonable, right? But, noooooo ... PG&E says that would cost $75-150 billion, which it can't afford, in addition to the (up to)$30 billion liability it says it faces due to wildfire damage and loss of life.

So, my idea is that California should fast track a (private sector) torrefied wood waste power plant, which solves multiple issues here -- simultaneously.

Cuchulainn
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

cuch used to regale us with stories of the "Cash for Ash" scandal in Northern Ireland.
They wanted to increase the percentage of energy coming from renewables, so they offered a subsidy, but the subsidy was more than the cost of buying biomass, so according to cuch, people were buying enormous amounts of biomass and burning it just to get the subsidy. They certainly increased the percentage of energy coming from renewables, but it seems to have been in addition to other sources of energy rather than instead of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable ... ve_scandal
It was a DUP scheme with money from Westminster. You may remember DUP is shoring up Mrs, May's government. They also mad it illegal to bake Bert and Ernie wedding cakes.

All that British taxpayers' money up in smoke.

Wood pellets can become damp as well, so you need to dry them, dear Lisa.

I don't need no DUP. I have an infinite supply of wood.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 29th, 2019, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cuchulainn
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Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

wildfires fires are sparked by trees falling on aging electrical transmission lines
I saw this a while back from Whistler to Vancouver, every few miles sparks flying all over the place. Luckily it was winter. But I had TGA at the time.

Idea: put cables underground and/or away from trees along the highway!

clear all the trees that might fall on the lines
Sounds logical.

Last year I almost caused the power line for the mountain. to collapse. It was during a heat wave to boot.
Last edited by Cuchulainn on January 29th, 2019, 7:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Cuchulainn
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

And it doesn't take much ...

Alan
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Joined: December 19th, 2001, 4:01 am
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Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation)

wildfires fires are sparked by trees falling on aging electrical transmission lines
I saw this a while back from Whistler to Vancouver, every few miles sparks flying all over the place. Luckily it was winter. But I had TGA at the time.

Idea: put cables underground and/or away from trees along the highway!

Yes, but perhaps even more expensive than clearing the trees. Supposedly (and these are PG&E figures): costs $1-3 million per mile for 'under-grounding'. I will guess clearing the trees would be much cheaper as it quite low tech, esp. if you can then burn the wood waste for power! PG&E says it has about 150,000 miles of electric transmission + distribution lines: hard to know how much of this is in brush/forrested areas though, as opposed to more urban. Anyway, they are in bankruptcy (second time now), basically IMO an admission that they are/were run by a bunch of yahoos (their CEO was just ousted) and need somebody else to think for them. ppauper Topic Author Posts: 70239 Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation) katastrofa Posts: 7055 Joined: August 16th, 2007, 5:36 am Location: Alpha Centauri Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation) This is interesting: Cooling aerosols and changes in albedo counteract warming from CO2 and black carbon from forest bioenergy in Norway ... Here, we present a national-level climate impact analysis of stationary bioenergy systems in Norway based on wood-burning stoves and wood biomass-based district heating. We find that cooling aerosols and albedo offset 60–70% of total warming ... If I read this right, the recent terrible forest fires in California were actually quite good for global warming reduction, as the emitted particulates really help cool things off. If the fires weren't so otherwise damaging, it would be kind of amusing. So, a very nice environmentally friendly fuel is wood, as you get aerosols + it's renewable. You read that right, but were those who wrote that right? "Changes in surface albedo occur after forest harvest, when the solar reflective property of the surface is perturbed and the surface masking effects of trees is reduced82. Open land usually has higher albedo (i.e., higher reflectivity of incoming solar radiation) than forested land, and the difference is amplified in regions affected by seasonal snow cover12,15. When the forest regrows the surface albedo change gradually declines and returns to the pre-harvest level. This temporary perturbation causes a cooling contribution that can be of the same order of magnitude of the impacts associated with carbon fluxes24,83. " The argument they used to arrive to the final conclusion is from Ref 12, an article Pseudo-Science magazine. It reads: "Tropical forests mitigate warming through evaporative cooling, but the low albedo of boreal forests is a positive climate forcing. The evaporative effect of temperate forests is unclear. The net climate forcing from these and other processes is not known." So, all forests are not the same. I believe Norwegian forests are mostly boreal - am I correct, Prof. Bearish? This is what they write about them: "Climate model simulations show that the low surface albedo during the snow season, evident in local flux measurements (21) and satellite-derived surface albedo (Fig. 1D), warms climate compared to when there is an absence of trees (SOM). Consequently, the boreal forest has the greatest biogeophysical effect of all biomes on annual mean global temperature (7). Loss of boreal forest provides a positive feedback for glaciation (22), whereas forest expansion during the mid-Holocene 6000 years ago amplified warming (23)." Where do I begin... Sss-sss-sss-sss... The last sentence relates climate changes (complicated and non-linear as they are) that we experience on a industrialised, polluted and overpopulated planet with extensively agriculture to those in other archaeological periods, say Holocene. What is more, the authors must be able to travel in time (multiple times) to move back to Holocene and perform a proper counterfactual study, from which they infer that the direction of the causal dependence goes from the forest expansion event to the Holocene climate warming, and isn't related to any other events accompanying or preceding events (brings to mind the popular jocular example every statistician thinks about reading such revelations: the causal relation between the barometer's indication and the onset of storm). Finally, this source doesn't say that deforestation of the whole planet leads to climate cooling or even that cutting down boreal forests can have any cooling net effect. It just says that the surface albedo of snow is lower than that of a boreal forest (why only boreal? - because there's no snow in tropics). Hence the Norwegian study is a hypothesis based on hypotheses and a very daring causal interpretations of possibly accidental dependencies. It looks like boreal forests warm up the Norwegian climate which is good for Norwegian cats, but Californian cats are a different story... Cuchulainn Posts: 58122 Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am Location: Amsterdam Contact: Re: Impending Ice Age - What We Can Do (Mitigation) wildfires fires are sparked by trees falling on aging electrical transmission lines I saw this a while back from Whistler to Vancouver, every few miles sparks flying all over the place. Luckily it was winter. But I had TGA at the time. Idea: put cables underground and/or away from trees along the highway! Yes, but perhaps even more expensive than clearing the trees. Supposedly (and these are PG&E figures): costs$1-3 million per mile for 'under-grounding'. I will guess clearing the trees would be much cheaper as it quite low tech, esp. if you can then burn the wood waste for power! PG&E says it has about 150,000 miles of electric transmission + distribution lines: hard to know how much of this is in brush/forrested areas though, as opposed to more urban.

Anyway, they are in bankruptcy (second time now), basically IMO an admission that they are/were run by a bunch of yahoos (their CEO was just ousted) and need somebody else to think for them.
Indeed. When God was giving out the brains, I think he skipped the PG&E boardroom. It's not rocket science to fix it.