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Cuchulainn
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October 3rd, 2006, 10:50 am

QuotePhysical \ Man made \ Non Motorised \ Furniture \ Chair \ Interiror Chair \ Kitchen Chair \ ... I would say Physical, Furniture and Chait are classes, the othe just roles (i.e. objects).
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CactusMan
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October 3rd, 2006, 2:13 pm

Articles are commonly dropped in English and the meaning does not change in the proper context. This commonly done in newspaper headlines. Consider the famous example:"Man bites dog!"This certainly doesn't mean humankind bit a dog, right? No, it means "a" man went off it, and the crazy bloke bit a dog! Right?
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CactusMan
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October 3rd, 2006, 2:47 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxDisagree both on the poetic part, and also the ability to drop the a. It changes the entire meaning of the sentence and it makes no sense. It is entirely different from the you cafe example. What is the difference between the following sentances:The man was violentA man was violentMan was violentThe last one means a man was violent. For example, I can imagine the headline: "Man Was Violent, Neighbors Call Police."
 
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Cuchulainn
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October 3rd, 2006, 3:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxDisagree both on the poetic part, and also the ability to drop the a. It changes the entire meaning of the sentence and it makes no sense. It is entirely different from the you cafe example. What is the difference between the following sentances:The man was violentA man was violentMan was violentThe last one means a man was violent. For example, I can imagine the headline: "Man Was Violent, Neighbors Call Police."It's neither wrong nor right. It depends on the context; it is an illocutionary act in the Searle's sense. It could have various meanings:asserts suggests demands promises, or vows.QuoteGranted one does not need to be a slave to the rules of grammar, however if the rules of grammar are there to prevent an ambiguous interpretation.That's why we need lawyers
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rmax
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October 3rd, 2006, 3:37 pm

I think the examples you are quoting are all newspaper headlines and hence are not grammatically correct anyhow. The last sentence means in my example means “Mankind was violent.” Granted one does not need to be a slave to the rules of grammar, however if the rules of grammar are there to prevent an ambiguous interpretation.
 
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CactusMan
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October 3rd, 2006, 4:33 pm

But, I'm telling you man, the stories on BBC and other news are wrong, because the "a" was erased deliberately by Texans in flight control HQ. If it was static, then why can't one hear a short burst of static?It's not static, it's an erasure. Texas has a long history of quirky fascination with letters. Here are some examples:--Changed "Tejas" to "Texas". When they're not playing with "a"s, they play with "j"s and "x"s.--There is a difference in Texas between "Independent oil producer" (big "I") and "independent oil producer" (small I)--George "W" Bush (who some people just call "Dubya"; being known by two letters, and especially only one letter, is a high honor in Texas, e.g., "CJ". One has to earn the right to be called by letters, and not "Bill" or "George" or some such.)In Texas, never do business with anyone unless they go by two letters (or at least know someone who does), otherwise you can be sure they're not very well connected. If you meet a Bill and he introduces you to a George, then watch out. On the other hand, if you meet a CJ and he introduces you to an AJ and MC, then you're in! --Ranches in Texas are often named using a letter, e.g., "Circle M Ranch"--Lounges on the U. of Texas campus are called a "T Room" (Don't believe it? Take a look: T-Room )--Who shot "J" "R"?--"Debie Does Dallas" ("D" "D" "D"--nice alleteration using the letter "D")
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TraderJoe
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Aussie Nerd Proves Armstrong Right

October 3rd, 2006, 7:52 pm

I liked the Red Army discussion better
 
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Traden4Alpha
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October 3rd, 2006, 8:40 pm

Technically, "Ham sandwich, please." is not grammatically correct, at all. Even "A ham sandwich, please." isn't grammatically correct. Neither sentence fragment has a verb. In this example, most of the sentence is implicit -- the waitress assumes the customer wants the noun they have spoken about and the customer assumes that the waitress will get whatever food-oriented noun the customer speaks of. If someone walked into a restaurant and asked "Give me ham sandwich, please", the waitress would wonder about the potential eastern european roots of the customer.The sentence "man bites dog" has another nasty ambiguity besides the "Man"/"a man" distinction. It's not clear if "bites" is the verb or "dog" is the verb. For example, "mosquito bites dog hikers" uses "dogs" as the verb. If a vampire beset a community, the headline might read "Man Bites Dog Area Residents".Ain't English too much fun!
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Traden4Alpha
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October 3rd, 2006, 9:03 pm

Double Post. Sorry
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TraderJoe
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October 3rd, 2006, 9:03 pm

What about "The Red Army ate my ham sandwich"?
 
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rmax
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October 4th, 2006, 6:18 am

Cactus Man - thanks for the tip about Texas, if ever I am unfortunate to do business there I will watch out!!T4A - grammar was never my strong pointTJ (Tejas speak) I think they did a whole a more than that!!
 
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TraderJoe
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October 4th, 2006, 10:03 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxCactus Man - thanks for the tip about Texas, if ever I am unfortunate to do business there I will watch out!!T4A - grammar was never my strong pointTJ (Tejas speak) I think they did a whole a more than that!!Those commie bastards.