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Marsden
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 13th, 2006, 4:17 pm

Last edited by Marsden on October 12th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TraderJoe
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 13th, 2006, 9:25 pm

Bravo !!
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 14th, 2006, 1:12 pm

since bangladesh is dar islam, were these loans sharia compliant ?
 
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flairplay
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 14th, 2006, 4:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppaupersince bangladesh is dar islam, were these loans sharia compliant ?Indeed!And what's going on? Two Muslims winning Nobel Prizes this year - in literature and for Peace?Peace of all things? And the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely? Aren't all Muslim states fascist?What's going on here!
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 15th, 2006, 5:05 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: ppaupersince bangladesh is dar islam, were these loans sharia compliant ?Indeed!so what's the answer? sharia- or non-sharia ?QuoteAnd the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely? to be fair, he was put on trial:QuoteIn a February 2005 interview with a Swiss newspaper, he criticized the Turkish government for refusing to recognize what he says was the massacre of Armenians during the First World War and mentioned that 30,000 Kurds and one million Armenians had been killed.The charge and the pending trial drew international criticism against Turkey during a sensitive moment: the predominantly Muslim country had recently begun membership talks with the European Union.However, in January, a Turkish court dropped the case.
 
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flairplay
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 16th, 2006, 6:23 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: ppaupersince bangladesh is dar islam, were these loans sharia compliant ?Indeed!so what's the answer? sharia- or non-sharia ?QuoteAnd the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely? to be fair, he was put on trial:QuoteIn a February 2005 interview with a Swiss newspaper, he criticized the Turkish government for refusing to recognize what he says was the massacre of Armenians during the First World War and mentioned that 30,000 Kurds and one million Armenians had been killed.The charge and the pending trial drew international criticism against Turkey during a sensitive moment: the predominantly Muslim country had recently begun membership talks with the European Union.However, in January, a Turkish court dropped the case.You must be flogging yourself - two Muslims get the Nobel Prize! One crticises his country and yet goes free. And the Muslim country had a functioning court - Jesus Christ, what's going on here!
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 16th, 2006, 1:14 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayYou must be flogging yourself - two Muslims get the Nobel Prize! how so ? muslims make up what 20% of the global population. Of course they will pick up an award here and there.It would be more of an issue if they were overrepresented in those awards.Quote One crticises his country and yet goes free. "goes free" is of course only half the story."Was arrested and put on trial for mentioning a genocide his country denies it committed" is the other half.And one suspects that the trial was dropped due to international pressure so as not to queer Turkey's EU application. In your prior post you said <<And the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely?>>.Being arrested and put on trial hardly constitutes "living freely"
Last edited by ppauper on October 15th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flairplay
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 18th, 2006, 5:13 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayYou must be flogging yourself - two Muslims get the Nobel Prize! how so ? muslims make up what 20% of the global population. Of course they will pick up an award here and there.It would be more of an issue if they were overrepresented in those awards.Quote One crticises his country and yet goes free. <<And the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely?>>.Being arrested and put on trial hardly constitutes "living freely"Man, you are one frustrated soul!Feelings of inadequacy leave you filled with a sense of impotence and hatred for 20% of the world's population. My guess is that at least 80% of those 20% are more reasonable and sensible than you. And I'm being conservative. My guess is that you are the mirror oppositte of the mad mullahs - a small minority of Muslims - who have a deep hatred of the West. Going on trial in Turkey was not a great thing - but the point is that the court set him free. Now case dismissed in a court may not be your idea of living freely, but it shows the court functioned when needed. In your narrrow little mind, you would have been delighted if the court had found him guilty.You will continue to frustrate yourself and espouse hatred and destruction. That is the fait accompli of your sad little existence.Tch tch tch - sad!
 
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mencey
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 18th, 2006, 7:02 am

Yes we still have hope with Turkey,.... However I always thought that Turkey is a democratic, secular and constitutional republic, with a mayoritary muslim population but not a "muslim state".Correct me if i am wrong but I even think Turkey abollised the caliphate. from wikipediaThere is a strong tradition of secularism in Turkey. Even though the state has no official religion nor promotes any, it actively monitors the area between the religions. The constitutional rule that prohibits discrimination on religious grounds is taken very seriously. The Turkish Constitution recognises freedom of religion for individuals, and the religious communities are placed under the protection of state, but the constitution explicitly states that they cannot become involved in the political process, by forming a religious party for instance. No party can claim that it represents a form of religious belief. However, religious sensibilities are generally represented through conservative parties. Turkey, as a secular country, prohibits by law, the wearing of religious headcover and theo-political symbolic garments for both genders in government buildings, schools, and universities.PS: if "Turkey, as a secular country, prohibits by law, the wearing of religious headcover and theo-political symbolic garments for both genders in government buildings, schools, and universities." I really can not undertand why in the UK can not do the same,....
Last edited by mencey on October 17th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 18th, 2006, 1:01 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayYou must be flogging yourself - two Muslims get the Nobel Prize! how so ? muslims make up what 20% of the global population. Of course they will pick up an award here and there.It would be more of an issue if they were overrepresented in those awards.Quote One crticises his country and yet goes free. <<And the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely?>>.Being arrested and put on trial hardly constitutes "living freely"Man, you are one frustrated soul!Feelings of inadequacy leave you filled with a sense of impotence and hatred for 20% of the world's population.Ah, the standard personal attack from someone who's lost an argment.
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 18th, 2006, 1:10 pm

and all these personal attacks started because I asked the simple question:is Gramaen sharia-compliant since it operates in an islamic countryThat's a legitimate question as the charging of interest is precluded under sharia,and I'm curious as to if and how the bank operates under such restrictions
 
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flairplay
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 19th, 2006, 6:21 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayYou must be flogging yourself - two Muslims get the Nobel Prize! how so ? muslims make up what 20% of the global population. Of course they will pick up an award here and there.It would be more of an issue if they were overrepresented in those awards.Quote One crticises his country and yet goes free. <<And the literature guy criticises his own country and still lives freely?>>.Being arrested and put on trial hardly constitutes "living freely"Man, you are one frustrated soul!Feelings of inadequacy leave you filled with a sense of impotence and hatred for 20% of the world's population.Ah, the standard personal attack from someone who's lost an argment.Personal attack? How about calling it the truth? A man likes you who attacks 1.2 billion of the world's population he has never met? Adolf did it to people of the Jewish faith - and now his tradition is well and truly alive as every coward and worm crawls out of the woodwork to post scurrilous comments about Muslims. It takes no courage nor honesty - just a desire to twist the truth and find an outlet for your own frustrations and inadequacy. I know many Muslims and I find your comments disgusting. Some of them are some of the most balanced, thoughtful and decent people I have met. So I cannot agree with your blanket attacks on everything Muslim or Islamic. I find your comments on all things Muslim totally disgusting.You must be burning inside - I cannot imagine the level of hate you feel to write the stuff you do. The level of ignorance, frustration and inadequacy that you must possess to write such stuff is unfathomable to a normal mind - though Adolf may have welcomed you in his inner circle. Your thought processes are exactly the same.
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 19th, 2006, 1:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayAh, the standard personal attack from someone who's lost an argment.Personal attack? How about calling it the truth? A man likes you who attacks 1.2 billion of the world's population he has never met? Adolf did it to people of the Jewish faith - and now his tradition is well and truly alive as every coward and worm crawls out of the woodwork to post scurrilous comments about Muslims. ah, now you're comparing me to hitler. That from a member of a religion whose imans preach that Jews are pigs and monkeys,and one branch of which longs for the arrival of the Mahdi who will slaughter the JewsQuoteIslamic tradition pictures the Mahdi as joining with the army of Muslim warriors carrying black flags. The Mahdi will then lead this army to Israel and re-conquer it for Islam. The Jews will be slaughtered until very few remain and Jerusalem will become the location of the Mahdi’s rule over the Earth. Perhaps Hitler was your Mahdi ? He seems to fit the job description ?
 
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ppauper
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 19th, 2006, 1:17 pm

And I fail to see why you injected all this in a thread just because I asked if Grameen was sharia compliant.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Grameen Bank and its founder win Nobel Peace Prize

October 19th, 2006, 3:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperand all these personal attacks started because I asked the simple question:is Gramaen sharia-compliant since it operates in an islamic countryThat's a legitimate question as the charging of interest is precluded under sharia,and I'm curious as to if and how the bank operates under such restrictions[/IMG]My (limited) understanding is that Grameen bank is NOT strictly Sharia-compliant and the bank has had some (but not too many) problems with it. Grameen bank does not charge very high rates of interest even though the bank does lend to what other banks would deem to be extremely bad credit risks (poor rural women who want to start/improve a very small business). Grameen attains a fairly good repayment rate via peer-pressure and mutual support among the local borrowers.We've studied Islamic finance on behalf of a global bank and its much more subtle (and interesting) than just a "no interest" edict. It's more geared against usury in which a moneylender exploits needy borrowers to extract excessive profit. But its OK if the "borrower" and the "lender" can share risks and rewards of a financial relationship. The law forbids "gambling" but somehow permits risk-pooling. The result is that Sharia-compliant Islamic banks can offer a rough equivalent of interest-bearing accounts, mortgages, financing for receivables, bonds for construction, insurance, etc. But these equivalents are different from their Western counterparts in that the pay-off structures probably look more like having an equity stake than having a fixed interest-rate cashflow stream with guaranteed repayment of principle. (Guaranteed repayment of the principle is fine under Sharia, but the "interest" cash-flows might be more variable and more tied to profit-sharing).The over-arching principle for Islamic finance is tied to ethics and the promotion of broader social/community objectives over strict profits. I suspect Grameen has survived being noncompliant due to its modest rate of interest and the demonstrable social benefits of microlending. P.S., I've seen nothing racist or anti-Islamic in ppauper's comments.
Last edited by Traden4Alpha on October 18th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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