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mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenNelson Mandela was labeled a terrorist by one Dick Cheney once upon a time. This -- like most of Dickless' pronouncements -- had no basis in fact, but there were no small number of violent reactions by South African blacks to Apartheid. Also, there were myriad resistances to colonialism in Africa that would no doubt have been labeled "terrorism" had they occurred today, and no doubt many of them would quite willingly have committed greater acts of violence against the colonial nations had the means been available. Seems like in Rhodesia and South Africa they are starting to take care of that,....south africa land grabQuoteYou should read sometime the eloquent description by an Italian bomber pilot of the aesthetic beauty of a bomb exploding amidst a group of Ethiopian horsemen during Italy's conqust of that nation just prior to WWII. I do not comment on Italian "military" capacity during that war,.... QuoteAs to the "peace loving gentle Jewish race," (.......) . And if you want something more current, see how often in press accounts, even though they are heavily censored, it comes out that in IDF "retaliatory strikes" into the Occupied Territories the Israelis "incidentally" managed to destroy water infrastructure. And you should look up exactly what Ketziot/Ansar III, Ofer, and Megiddo are.What do you expected? the rules of engagement are either respected by all parties or by noneQuoteAnd Hindus! Have you any idea in what violent struggle suicide bombing first took hold?Maybe after the partition of British India and the withdraw of the British Army? Pakistan and India were divided and India's goverment had the "brilliant idea" of permiting Muslims to stay in India while Pakistan was expulsing all hindus (Sindhi) from Pakistan.
 
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mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:22 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayFor the record, I don't think muslims are normal, and refuse to work, live, play or have anything to do with the bastards.Well, at least that's honest and open. But why dont you call your HR group and offer them your opinion. What do you think would be the reaction? What level is your honesty and courage? Enough to share your views and lose your job?.One of my HR group was killed on a train in London, blown to bits by so-called moslems. The rest of the group aren't that sympathetic anymore. Capiche ?I am truly sorry to hear about the individual in your HR group. I can also understand if the rest of the group are not sympathetic anymore - though strong minded individuals must try to fight general hatred.The the term prejudice comes from pre-judgement, to form a judgement without knowing detail. Since individuals are often different, to form views on what an individual is like without knowing them is the definition of prejudice.Just as one cannot say that all women are the same, all Christians the same, all Americans the same, all agnostics the same, it is MATHEMATICALLY SPEAKING such an outlandish proposal to suggest that 1,200,000,000 indiviudals born in a Muslim culture are all the same. Or that they aspire to doing what those suicide bombers did - who were murderers, nothing more.To try and defend this prejudice by cooking up false facts like some people do here is truly sad. No, Muslims are not asked to kill infidels. No Muslims are not encouraged to kill people not their own faith. No, Islam did not spread by forcing people to change their religion under the sword (in fact, that was one of it's appeals that by and large it did not try to force individuals). Many lands under Islamic rule maintained their own religions, and in fact people of different faiths thrived. From Moorish Spain to India, the ruling Muslims did not speak to impose their religion on others.As well, during the Crusades, while the Crusaders turned the word of Jesus Christ upside down by murdering all Jews and Muslims in their wake, the Muslims reponded mostly with chivalry. They had respect for non combatants, and their lives.This much is all historical fact. To deny this is perverse, and then to assert that Islam tells people to kill non Muslims just reveals sheer illogical hatred.The problem for you is that you guys will ultimately lose this debate, even if takes 10-20 years. The third Reich lasted only 12 years, rather than the thousand esposued by its leader, and his attempe subjugate the Jewish community in the end met with failure. So it will be when someone else wreaks hatred on a whole group.Even more worryingly for others here, extreme behaviours of all kinds are followed by extreme behaviours of the other kind. McCarthyism was followed by the liberal 1960's, and extreme left views. As one extreme behavious is shown to be overstating the case, it is soon followed by its antithesis. The pendulum keeps swinging.And as far as I can see, it alread has started swinging back - the first signs are there.Fairplay, you really seems like a good hearted guy with a solid ethic base. We understand that not all muslims are putting bombs, but you shall also understand that there is an integration problem in Europe, and a very serious one. However it is very simple, Islam does not differentiate Church and State, it does not differentiate spirituality from political power, and does not differentiate religion from culture. Therefore is a threat to freedom and civil rights. Reform that, abolish the idea that Islam has to rein over other religions, abolish the concept of Dhimmi, give women equal rights, etc, etc.etc.... and we will not bother if you pray to allah, Jesus, Jehova or Buddha.
 
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mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:30 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayIn contrast, no one goes around and says all Christians are terrorists because Christian Serbs slaughtered 7,000 Muslim men in cold blood in Kosovo in th emid 1990's or because Christian militia men slaughtered 1,600 innocent people, mostly women and children, in the Saabra Shatila camps in Lebabon in 1982.Go and brush your mounth for what you are saying here. For every muslim slaughtered by Christian militia in Lebanon I can put you 100 examples of worse behaviour by Muslim militias. About Kosovo, what do you have to complain about? the West's "ugly white men" went and acted to protect the muslims and against the "Christian Serbs", because it was not looking at the religion but at the human rights. Now tell me which Muslim country is intervining to stop genocide in Darfur.
Last edited by mencey on October 25th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 12:01 pm

As well, during the Crusades, while the Crusaders turned the word of Jesus Christ upside down by murdering all Jews and Muslims in their wake, the Muslims reponded mostly with chivalry. Hilarious!QuoteAs a Crusade historian, I found the tranquil solitude of the ivory tower shattered by journalists, editors, and talk-show hosts on tight deadlines eager to get the real scoop. What were the Crusades?, they asked. When were they? Just how insensitive was President George W. Bush for using the word "crusade" in his remarks? With a few of my callers I had the distinct impression that they already knew the answers to their questions, or at least thought they did. What they really wanted was an expert to say it all back to them. For example, I was frequently asked to comment on the fact that the Islamic world has a just grievance against the West. Doesn’t the present violence, they persisted, have its roots in the Crusades’ brutal and unprovoked attacks against a sophisticated and tolerant Muslim world? In other words, aren’t the Crusades really to blame?A Fullisade of Crusade
 
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Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 12:04 pm

The problem is that extremist mullahs manage to get a small proportion of people living in these lands convinced that WesternersUh, no. A large number of mullahs, aided and abetted by corrupt and decrepit kleptocratic nutbars (the government) foment the stuff from an early age. Ever seen the textbooks in a Wahabbi nutbar school in Saudi Arabia? Charming.QuoteFat'hi ash-Shiqaqi, a well-educated young Palestinian living in Damascus, recently boasted of his familiarity with European literature. He told an interviewer how he had read and enjoyed Shakespeare, Dostoyevsky, Chekhov, Sartre, and Eliot. He spoke of his particular passion for Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, a work he read ten times in English translation "and each time wept bitterly." Such acquaintance with world literature and such exquisite sensibility would not be of note except for two points-that Shiqaqi was, until his assassination in Malta a few weeks ago, an Islamist (or what is frequently called a "fundamentalist" Muslim) and that he headed Islamic Jihad, the arch- terrorist organization that has murdered dozens of Israelis over the last two years.The Western Mind of Radical Islam
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 12:53 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: cosmologistDear Marsden,I am surprised that a man like you ( educated, exposed to the world of senses etc) has such flawed line of reasoning to back your assertions.What "flawed line of reasoning?" What "assertions?" You've made an assertion here; back it up.QuoteAnyways, there is nothing to talk positive about Islam, any more. I am sorry to say this. The form of Islam that is practised in most of the countries today, Malaysia, Indonesia, Nigeria , Bangladesh, Mongolia (they have resurrected the rapist Chenges Khan and have m,ade him a national hero), Trukey included ( I have omitted the rabid middle east ones), IS not the form which it was supposed to be practised in the first place.Several sweeping statements, cosmo. "Nothing to talk positive about Islam?" You presume to know everything there is to know about Islam, which indicates to me that you suffer from psychosis and delusions of grandeur. "Not the form which it was supposed to be practised in the first place?" Shouldn't you be posting as "Muhammed" if you're qualified to make such a statement?Seriously, cosmo, you clearly imagine that you know more than you actually do. It just makes you look foolish.QuoteI have stated earlier that the fanatics have taken over because, they are scared that they are losing their grip over the society as a whole. They just want all the attention, nothing else. This form of Islam will not survive for long.History has often been surprised at how long wicked nonsense can hold sway over a people, and how far it can get them to go. You, as seems to be your habit, oversimplify greatly the motivations of Islamic fanatics, and this leads to faulty conclusions. In any case, while I think it is true that the inherent good nature of people eventually wins out, it is often only after one group has completely exterminated another. (Usually they feel really badly about it long after the fact, though.)QuoteYou should probably be the last person to pass any judgement on Hindus, Sikhs, etc. Speak only when you are asked to, on certain topics.Kiss my ass.QuoteHow many friends have you got those who are devout Hindus or Sikhs? How many pages of a Hindu scripture have you ever read?Irrelevant. Follow the discussion a little and you can see what my point was. What is relevant is, how many people have been blown up by Tamil Tiger suicide bombers?Now go away.
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 12:58 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyWhat do you expected? the rules of engagement are either respected by all parties or by noneThen the West had no right to expect civil treatment by Muslims after subjugating so many of them in Palestine.QuoteQuoteAnd Hindus! Have you any idea in what violent struggle suicide bombing first took hold?Maybe after the partition of British India and the withdraw of the British Army? Pakistan and India were divided and India's goverment had the "brilliant idea" of permiting Muslims to stay in India while Pakistan was expulsing all hindus (Sindhi) from Pakistan.No; in Sri Lanka, where the Hindu Tamil Tigers still resist with violence that makes al Qaeda look like pikers the Buddhist-based national government.
 
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migalley
Posts: 3696
Joined: June 13th, 2005, 10:54 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 1:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenKiss my ass.So you like men to kiss your ass? Be careful your muslim friends don't stone you to death.
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 1:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayI think the anti Muslim types here should go watch some Star Wars films instead - now that they realise Klingons dont exist, they need to create their ownas a side note, Klingons were in characters in the popular science fiction series Star Trek not the Star Wars movies, but you've never been one to let accuracy get in your way
 
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mencey
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Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 4:14 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenThen the West had no right to expect civil treatment by Muslims after subjugating so many of them in Palestine.Then the Muslims had no right to expect civil treatment by the WestQuote No; in Sri Lanka, where the Hindu Tamil Tigers still resist with violence that makes al Qaeda look like pikers the Buddhist-based national government.Touche!! Equally deplorable and condenable. Suicide tactics shows a complete lack of respect for human live, it does not matter if performed by Muslims, Tamils, Japanese or anyone else. It's the coward's resource, real men fight in the battelfield.
Last edited by mencey on October 25th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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flairplay
Topic Author
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 5:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayIn contrast, no one goes around and says all Christians are terrorists because Christian Serbs slaughtered 7,000 Muslim men in cold blood in Kosovo in th emid 1990's or because Christian militia men slaughtered 1,600 innocent people, mostly women and children, in the Saabra Shatila camps in Lebabon in 1982.Go and brush your mounth for what you are saying here. For every muslim slaughtered by Christian militia in Lebanon I can put you 100 examples of worse behaviour by Muslim militias. About Kosovo, what do you have to complain about? the West's "ugly white men" went and acted to protect the muslims and against the "Christian Serbs", because it was not looking at the religion but at the human rights. Now tell me which Muslim country is intervining to stop genocide in Darfur.I brushed my mouth. So now: 7000 were just in one town, there were scores of others killed as well. This is not a point about counting, but to say that crazy fanatics exist everywhere, and that you cannot condemn the whole group because of that. In fact, the truth of the matter is that Western intervention in Bosnia started primarily because American Jewish organisations were reminded of the atrocities carried out by the Nazis during the second world war, and could not bear to see it happening to someone else.What does that tell you? Instead of hating all Muslims, American Jewish groups saw them as innocent victims, and helped create an uproar which ultimately stopped the genocide of Muslims in the ex Yugoslavia.Were these Jewish groups wrong in showing kindness and recognising that human beings are ultimately human beings - and not subscribe to some blanket prejudice. This is not an example of us versus them. It's an example of how we either support building a commonality and decency to reduce violence and war by bringing people together, rather than using some events here and there to create further hatred.You have completely missed the point. My point was the the CHRISTIAN community CANNOT all be labelled violent terrorists just because some group carried out atrocities. Ditto for Muslims.And anyway your numbers are flawed in the first place. The Nazis were not Muslims and yet they managed to kill 6 million innocent people of Semitic origin, who they saw as non Europeans. Actually while Christianity was not a main concern of Nazism, many were born and rasied as Christians.But this does NOT villify Christians and make them terrorists and murderers. Ditto it does not for Muslims either.
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 8:09 pm

Actually while Christianity was not a main concern of Nazism, many were born and rasied as Christians.What happened to Dietrich Bonhoffer?What happened to Polish Catholics, especially priests?
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 8:11 pm

Quote“We were racists, admiring Nazism, reading its books and the sources of its thought, particularly Nietzsche, . . . Fichte, and H.S. Chamberlain’s Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, which revolves on race. We were the first to think of translating Mein Kampf. Whoever lived during this period in Damascus would appreciate the inclination of the Arab people to Nazism, for Nazism was the power which could serve as its champion, and he who is defeated will by nature love the victor.”
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 8:12 pm

QuoteDe Lubac traces the origin of 19th century attempts to construct a humanism apart from God, the sources of contemporary atheism which purports to have "moved beyond God." The three persons he focuses on are Feuerbach, who greatly influenced Marx; Nietzsche, who represents nihilism; and Comte, who is the father of all forms of positivism. He then shows that the only one who really responded to this ideology was Dostoevsky, a kind of prophet who criticizes in his novels this attempt to have a society without God. Despite their historical and scholarly appearance, de Lubac's work clearly refers to the present. As he investigates the sources of modern atheism, particularly in its claim to have definitely moved beyond the idea of God, he is thinking of an ideology prevalent today in East and West which regards the Christian faith as a completely outdated.The Drama of Atheist Humanism, Henri Cardinal de Lubac, SJ
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 8:15 pm

Ditto for Muslims.Why in the Muslim baby boom do so many Muslim babies go BOOM?