Serving the Quantitative Finance Community

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
  • 12
 
User avatar
mencey
Posts: 638
Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:08 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayThis is not a point about counting, but to say that crazy fanatics exist everywhereYou have completely missed the point. My point was the the CHRISTIAN community CANNOT all be labelled violent terrorists just because some group carried out atrocities. Ditto for Muslims.I do not label all Muslim terrorist, I label Islam as a dangerous ideology and a thread to open societies Proof me the contrary, proof me that Islam model of society is compatible with the idea of open society,..... By the way you have not comment on Darfur yet.
Last edited by mencey on October 25th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
gardener3
Posts: 1496
Joined: April 5th, 2004, 3:25 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:57 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayThis is not a point about counting, but to say that crazy fanatics exist everywhereYou have completely missed the point. My point was the the CHRISTIAN community CANNOT all be labelled violent terrorists just because some group carried out atrocities. Ditto for Muslims.I do not label all Muslim terrorist, I label Islam as a dangerous ideology and a thread to open societies Proof me the contrary, proof me that Islam model of society is compatible with the idea of open society,..... By the way you have not comment on Darfur yet.Any religion whose ideology taken to the extreme is not compatible with an open society. I visited Israel few years back. Some of the ultra-orthodox jews have an interesting take on technology and clothing which they would like to impose on everyone. Do you think their ideology is compatible with an open society? How about extreme christians who kill doctors working in abortion clinics. Is their ideology compatible with an open society?How would you deal with Islam in an open society?
 
User avatar
TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 9:58 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeI've worked with Muslims - in the UK and in their home country once. They're always going off to pray or fasting or missing work or lectures for some reason or another...And the ones who dont are the ones u probably dont notice. My own experience is that there are all kinds of Muslims, the good, the bad and the ugly. And in the same proportions as anywhere else. In fact I have seen rather more of the good type, but that is because I generally prefer goodies to baddies. So that would also apply to my non Muslim friends.I think the anti Muslim types here should go watch some Star Wars films instead - now that they realise Klingons dont exist, they need to create their own. One age it is African people, another it is Italian immigrants, another is Jewish immigrants, goes on and on.Question: Since when did our black friends in Africa, the peace loving gentle Jewish race or the Itais for that matter ever blow up the World Trade Centre, kill over 50 innocent people commuting to work in London, kill again innocents in Madrid, Kenya, Bali etc. etc.Answer: Never.You (Muslims) are the ones at fault, my friend (s).Not the Africans, Italians or Jewish people. Nor our Christian brothers, Buddhists or Hindus.Just you.Own it.you mean just the way you are owning Timothy McVeigh. what have you done to own up?I'll own Timothy if you own the suicide bombers in London, New York, Madrid, Bali etc etc.Timothy McVeigh was a sick man who needed help but unfortunately carried out one atrocious and tragic act against his own people before he could get it.Your turn.
 
User avatar
TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 10:04 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuestion: Since when did our black friends in Africa, the peace loving gentle Jewish race or the Itais for that matter ever blow up the World Trade Centre, kill over 50 innocent people commuting to work in London, kill again innocents in Madrid, Kenya, Bali etc. etc.Answer: Never.You (Muslims) are the ones at fault, my friend (s).Not the Africans, Italians or Jewish people. Nor our Christian brothers, Buddhists or Hindus.Just you.Own it.Uh ...Nelson Mandela was labeled a terrorist by one Dick Cheney once upon a time. This -- like most of Dickless' pronouncements -- had no basis in fact, but there were no small number of violent reactions by South African blacks to Apartheid. Also, there were myriad resistances to colonialism in Africa that would no doubt have been labeled "terrorism" had they occurred today, and no doubt many of them would quite willingly have committed greater acts of violence against the colonial nations had the means been available.You should read sometime the eloquent description by an Italian bomber pilot of the aesthetic beauty of a bomb exploding amidst a group of Ethiopian horsemen during Italy's conqust of that nation just prior to WWII.As to the "peace loving gentle Jewish race," you should look to the Irgun website to see the proud recounting of such atrocities as bombs set off in the midst of Arab marketplaces and shooting Arab workers at busstops during the Palestinian Mandate period. And if you want something more current, see how often in press accounts, even though they are heavily censored, it comes out that in IDF "retaliatory strikes" into the Occupied Territories the Israelis "incidentally" managed to destroy water infrastructure. And you should look up exactly what Ketziot/Ansar III, Ofer, and Megiddo are.And Hindus! Have you any idea in what violent struggle suicide bombing first took hold?Yes, there are two sides to every story marsden, but I like the way you neatly skirt around the issues of suicide bombers killing thousands of innocent Westerners, eh ?
 
User avatar
TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 10:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayFor the record, I don't think muslims are normal, and refuse to work, live, play or have anything to do with the bastards.Well, at least that's honest and open. But why dont you call your HR group and offer them your opinion. What do you think would be the reaction? What level is your honesty and courage? Enough to share your views and lose your job?.One of my HR group was killed on a train in London, blown to bits by so-called moslems. The rest of the group aren't that sympathetic anymore. Capiche ?I am truly sorry to hear about the individual in your HR group. I can also understand if the rest of the group are not sympathetic anymore - though strong minded individuals must try to fight general hatred.The the term prejudice comes from pre-judgement, to form a judgement without knowing detail. Since individuals are often different, to form views on what an individual is like without knowing them is the definition of prejudice.Just as one cannot say that all women are the same, all Christians the same, all Americans the same, all agnostics the same, it is MATHEMATICALLY SPEAKING such an outlandish proposal to suggest that 1,200,000,000 indiviudals born in a Muslim culture are all the same. Or that they aspire to doing what those suicide bombers did - who were murderers, nothing more.To try and defend this prejudice by cooking up false facts like some people do here is truly sad. No, Muslims are not asked to kill infidels. No Muslims are not encouraged to kill people not their own faith. No, Islam did not spread by forcing people to change their religion under the sword (in fact, that was one of it's appeals that by and large it did not try to force individuals). Many lands under Islamic rule maintained their own religions, and in fact people of different faiths thrived. From Moorish Spain to India, the ruling Muslims did not speak to impose their religion on others.As well, during the Crusades, while the Crusaders turned the word of Jesus Christ upside down by murdering all Jews and Muslims in their wake, the Muslims reponded mostly with chivalry. They had respect for non combatants, and their lives.This much is all historical fact. To deny this is perverse, and then to assert that Islam tells people to kill non Muslims just reveals sheer illogical hatred.The problem for you is that you guys will ultimately lose this debate, even if takes 10-20 years. The third Reich lasted only 12 years, rather than the thousand esposued by its leader, and his attempe subjugate the Jewish community in the end met with failure. So it will be when someone else wreaks hatred on a whole group.Even more worryingly for others here, extreme behaviours of all kinds are followed by extreme behaviours of the other kind. McCarthyism was followed by the liberal 1960's, and extreme left views. As one extreme behavious is shown to be overstating the case, it is soon followed by its antithesis. The pendulum keeps swinging.And as far as I can see, it alread has started swinging back - the first signs are there.Keep whistling in the wind, my friend...
 
User avatar
gardener3
Posts: 1496
Joined: April 5th, 2004, 3:25 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 10:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeI'll own Timothy if you own the suicide bombers in London, New York, Madrid, Bali etc etc.Timothy McVeigh was a sick man who needed help but unfortunately carried out one atrocious and tragic act against his own people before he could get it.Your turn.I think you missed my point, which was you cannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few. If you are interested, and for what it's worth this is my view. I am agnostic with respect to religion, but this is my interpretation (again for what it's worth): These so called martyrs who are blowing themseleves up, are commiting two sins. First quran strictly forbids suicide, which is considered an insult to God. Second, these people are killing not only themselves but innocent people, in some cases children who have no comprehension of religion, ideology or politics. If you ask my opinion, they will meet the fiery wrath of Allah in hell, not the 70 virgins they expect in heaven.
 
User avatar
TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 10:48 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeI'll own Timothy if you own the suicide bombers in London, New York, Madrid, Bali etc etc.Timothy McVeigh was a sick man who needed help but unfortunately carried out one atrocious and tragic act against his own people before he could get it.Your turn.I think you missed my point, which was you cannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few. If you are interested, and for what it's worth this is my view. I am agnostic with respect to religion, but this is my interpretation (again for what it's worth): These so called martyrs who are blowing themseleves up, are commiting two sins. First quran strictly forbids suicide, which is considered an insult to God. Second, these people are killing not only themselves but innocent people, in some cases children who have no comprehension of religion, ideology or politics. If you ask my opinion, they will meet the fiery wrath of Allah in hell, not the 70 virgins they expect in heaven.Here here.
 
User avatar
TraderJoe
Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 26th, 2006, 10:50 pm

Quotemarsden: History has often been surprised at how long wicked nonsense can hold sway over a people, and how far it can get them to go. You, as seems to be your habit, oversimplify greatly the motivations of Islamic fanatics, and this leads to faulty conclusions. In any case, while I think it is true that the inherent good nature of people eventually wins out, it is often only after one group has completely exterminated another. (Usually they feel really badly about it long after the fact, though.)Yeah, I'm gonna feel real bad about that . PS - It's kind of a shame you haven't found a religion/loving God.
 
User avatar
Marsden
Posts: 3829
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 1:39 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenThen the West had no right to expect civil treatment by Muslims after subjugating so many of them in Palestine.Then the Muslims had no right to expect civil treatment by the WestNon sequitur. What was the original sin, and who committed it?QuoteQuote No; in Sri Lanka, where the Hindu Tamil Tigers still resist with violence that makes al Qaeda look like pikers the Buddhist-based national government.Touche!! Equally deplorable and condenable. Suicide tactics shows a complete lack of respect for human live, it does not matter if performed by Muslims, Tamils, Japanese or anyone else. It's the coward's resource, real men fight in the battelfield.No, actually, suicide tactics are in reality more honorable than most violence that goes on. I know that recent events have fucked up a lot of people's ability to reason, but this is simple logic: the suicide attacker essentially says, "The situation is so intolerable that I am willing to sacrifice my life in order to change it;" most violence only indicates a willingness to sacrifice other people's lives in order to change a situation. If there were any possibility that the cost of America's invasion of Iraq were 650,000 American lives, we never would have come within a thousand miles of the place. And yet we were perfectly willing to risk -- and realize -- that many Iraqi deaths.You (and others) have invented, mencey, a perfectly nihilist attitude underlying suicide bombing: "complete lack of respect for human life." That's your invention, mencey. What you fail to take into account in your simplistic analysis is that "in the battlefield" the groups from which suicide bombers generally come would be lucky to get rifles and decent boots, whereas their adversaries are often equipped with advanced jet fighters and helicopter gunships and night vision equipment, etc. -- does it really count as "in the battlefield" when one side has so vastly superior weaponry to the other? Are you just espousing a belief in "might makes right" in which you set the rules so that any venue in which your side does not have a near monopoly on violence is ruled out of bounds?And I must emphatically disagree with you on one point: real men fight in courts of law and justice, not on the battlefield. Real men seek justice, not dominance. And the Arabs, in their disputes with the West, have a long history of seeking reasoned justice and being denied it by the West; even within the last few months the Palestinians have received an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (Israel has blocked a full hearing) that the path of Israel's separation wall is illegal, and Israel (with, as always, US complicity) has ignored it. If you insist that anyone abandon violence, I say you'd damn well better give him some assurance of justice, and this we in the West pointedly have not done with regard to the Muslim World.
 
User avatar
Marsden
Posts: 3829
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 1:44 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeYes, there are two sides to every story marsden, but I like the way you neatly skirt around the issues of suicide bombers killing thousands of innocent Westerners, eh ?I don't skirt anything, dumbass. I'm just less inclined than certain assholes to concentrate my attentions on the sins of others as opposed to the sins of my own people. Dwelling on the sins of others is a cowardly cop-out, in my eyes: it's basically attempting to absolve yourself of responsibility for the things that you do control.
 
User avatar
cosmologist
Posts: 640
Joined: January 24th, 2005, 8:08 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 6:32 am

Hi all,""Aussie women (whites) are like meat. There is no problem if you can catch hold of them and eat them( I mean rape them). The women are at fault for arousing the libido of Lebanese moslems.'''' - I hope you folks have come to know about the recent outrage in Australia regarding this assertion of a cleric.The sister-fucker has apologised. The aussie press has no clue about what has happened to their country.I believe that Aussies( whites) are actually pathologically weak people. In any other country the bastard would have been shot dead by now. Mr. Marsden, what you have to say about this.Well, please don't ask me to go away. Don't do that. You have no right to do that.cheers
 
User avatar
Marsden
Posts: 3829
Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 12:15 pm

I have every right to tell you to go away, pencil dick. Deal with it. And, go away.What I have to say about the dimwit Muslim cleric in Australia is that he is a dimwit. There is, although I'm going to guess that it has escaped your acute attention, an entire industry devoted to finding and publicizing stupid and offensive things said by Muslims. Oh yes, there is. And this industry is likely responsible for you knowing about the Australian dumbass.Meanwhile, we in the West have our own dumbasses. (Some of them post on this forum.) But by and large their stupid-ass remarks are glossed over, and dumbasses like you are left feeling warm and fuzzy about pointing your fingers at the faults of others. We have had, just off the top of my head, a fucking general officer in the US military -- not some closeted cleric who maybe has a dozen dim-witted followers -- declare that he knew he would win in Iraq because, "My God is bigger than your God." Was the moron relieved of duty? I don't believe he ever was. And what was ever made of the fuckwit's stupidity? Had you ever heard of it?It wouldn't take a lot of scratching to find statements from the West, statements that no sister-fucker has ever apologized for, that are as offensive as what you just recounted.Now, go away, cosmo.
 
User avatar
Errrb
Posts: 1398
Joined: December 17th, 2002, 4:18 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 12:15 pm

the suicide attacker essentially says, "The situation is so intolerable that I am willing to sacrifice my life in order to change it How about the guy who recently barricaded himself in a Amish schoolhouse executed five girls and then killed himself? What exactly he was trying to change? Most of the suicide bombings done by muslims are not different from this crime, only fucking morons like Marsden try to rationalize the difference. I doubt anybody in good state of mind would seriously take this nonsence.
 
User avatar
migalley
Posts: 3696
Joined: June 13th, 2005, 10:54 am

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 1:38 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenMeanwhile, we in the West have our own dumbasses. (Some of them post on this forum.)Mr Marsden, you really should stop talking about yourself. "Me, me, me!", that's all you think about.That and getting some guy to kiss your ass.
 
User avatar
ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 1:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: migalleyQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenMeanwhile, we in the West have our own dumbasses. (Some of them post on this forum.)Mr Marsden, you really should stop talking about yourself. "Me, me, me!", that's all you think about.That and getting some guy to kiss your ass.that, and his fondness for goats.And it's Dr Marsden