QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: zetaa blanket of condemnation meaning broad brushstokes, Hamilton. I've tried to address why specific judgements against legalistic muslims are valid. Perhaps I could illustrate via commenting on Marsden:QuoteNo, actually, suicide tactics are in reality more honorable than most violence that goes on. I know that recent events have fucked up a lot of people's ability to reason, but this is simple logic: the suicide attacker essentially says, "The situation is so intolerable that I am willing to sacrifice my life in order to change it;" most violence only indicates a willingness to sacrifice other people's lives in order to change a situation. If there were any possibility that the cost of America's invasion of Iraq were 650,000 American lives, we never would have come within a thousand miles of the place. And yet we were perfectly willing to risk -- and realize -- that many Iraqi deaths.As an atheist I don't think you're in a position to make that assessment Marsden; as someone who is religious my interpretation is that a person wouldn't even cotemplate suicide if a) they didn't think they would be rewarded b) sins against the infidel could be forgiven with impunity. This is the problem with legalistic religion or self righteousness; it's earned and sins against those who aren't 'righteous' are dismissed. Contrast with Paul "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"I agree. If these guys went ahead truly believing that they would burn in hell for eternity, then what they did would be a courageous (but obviously immoral) action. But I don't think that was the case. Not related to this, I was reading 'razor's edge', and a character in the book was arguing that self sacrifice is actually very selfish. The only thing that god can not do is sacrifice himself. He sacrificed his only son for the sins of mankind according to the christian tradition. So, in a way by sacrificing himself, a person can rise above God, in doing something god cannot do, which might be a very selfish motivation.I'll keep it simple for you gardener as you seem to be (pretending to be) struggling with the basics here a bit:THOU SHALL NOT MURDER. PERIOD. END OF STATEMENT. THEY WILL BURN IN HELL.