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TraderJoe
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:13 pm

In modern day psychology parlence, it's what's also known as the "fight or flee" syndrome. And you're a fleer. Chicken.
 
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player
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:24 pm

Does anyone actually agree with Marsden
 
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zeta
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:35 pm

Wow. Where to begin?DivaJoe note that to date while you regularly lose your temper and run an incontenant mouth toward me, I have yet to lose my temper with you. And while I and others share a little of ourselves with the world at the risk of attracting a little flack, you seem content to lob cowardly lobbies from a position of anonymity. But moving on:QuoteSo are you the first Christian martyr ? Off you go then. Practice what you preach.No, Christ was. Believe it or not, he died for our sins, a substitution. The law or Old Testament you have vague familarlity with points out that there is a price to be paid for OUR wrongdoing; the law shows OUR weakness and leads us toward repentence. My and several others interpretation anyway, take it or leave it princessQuoteThe Old Testament also taught (and this message directly from God apparently) ... an eye for an eye.It also taught "Vengence is Mine...", the words of God, not yours. However I read also Solomon in Ecclesiastes who suggested that there is a season for everything, even for justice. There is a fine line between justice and revenge, people like yourself cross it at willQuoteNone of this soppy New Testament "turn the other cheek" shit.ergo, you think the words of Jesus Christ were effluenceQuoteCowardbeing calm in the presence of lunatics is hardly cowardly
 
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Cuchulainn
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerDoes anyone actually agree with MarsdenPlayer,Is this important for you? Must he agree with you or vice versa? Will it make you happier?If Ian Paisley and Gerrry Adams can sit down and talk, anything is possible (believe me).
Last edited by Cuchulainn on October 26th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Compatibility means deliberately repeating other people's mistakes."
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zeta
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:47 pm

Hopefully we can all agree in part, that spreading a blanket of condemnation over the whole for the actions of a few is wrong
 
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TraderJoe
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: playerDoes anyone actually agree with MarsdenPlayer,Is this important for you? Must he agree with you or vice versa? Will it make you happier?If Ian Paisley and Gerrry Adams can sit down and talk, anything is possible (believe me).Yeah, I still cannot adam & eve it !!
 
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TraderJoe
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 4:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zetaWow. Where to begin?DivaJoe note that to date while you regularly lose your temper and run an incontenant mouth toward me, I have yet to lose my temper with you. And while I and others share a little of ourselves with the world at the risk of attracting a little flack, you seem content to lob cowardly lobbies from a position of anonymity. But moving on:QuoteSo are you the first Christian martyr ? Off you go then. Practice what you preach.No, Christ was. Believe it or not, he died for our sins, a substitution. The law or Old Testament you have vague familarlity with points out that there is a price to be paid for OUR wrongdoing; the law shows OUR weakness and leads us toward repentence. My and several others interpretation anyway, take it or leave it princessQuoteThe Old Testament also taught (and this message directly from God apparently) ... an eye for an eye.It also taught "Vengence is Mine...", the words of God, not yours. However I read also Solomon in Ecclesiastes who suggested that there is a season for everything, even for justice. There is a fine line between justice and revenge, people like yourself cross it at willQuoteNone of this soppy New Testament "turn the other cheek" shit.ergo, you think the words of Jesus Christ were effluenceQuoteCowardbeing calm in the presence of lunatics is hardly cowardlyGood for you boy. You're not such a pussy postdoc after all .
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:31 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteOriginally posted by: Hamiltonwelling on the sins of others is a cowardly cop-outFollowing that logic, neurotic countries that blame the US for their problems, instead of themselves, are making a cowardly cop-out.Exactly. Do you disagree with this sentiment?Well, being a philosopher, I don't use the words "sin", "original sin", or "sentiment" in a philosophic argument, so allow me to rephrase your assertion, to see if you are talking about the same things:You said, I think:"(All) individuals who focus on the harmful effects of the actions of (other) individuals are copping out of ....<something>"Is that what you said?
 
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flairplay
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: playerDoes anyone actually agree with MarsdenI would say Zeta, Gradener, and myself are making the same overall point.Dont condemn all because of the actions of a few. And I would say as well - do not make up false facts to back up hatred.
 
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mencey
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:34 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenNo, actually, suicide tactics are in reality more honorable than most violence that goes on. I do not agree with that. That's simply making apology of terrorism. In some countries you may go to jail just for that sentence.
 
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flairplay
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zetaHopefully we can all agree in part, that spreading a blanket of condemnation over the whole for the actions of a few is wrongI think Gardener, Marsden, myself and perhaps Trader Joey are inclined to agree. The rest not so.
Last edited by flairplay on October 26th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mencey
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenThen the West had no right to expect civil treatment by Muslims after subjugating so many of them in Palestine.Then the Muslims had no right to expect civil treatment by the WestNon sequitur. What was the original sin, and who committed it?QuoteQuote No; in Sri Lanka, where the Hindu Tamil Tigers still resist with violence that makes al Qaeda look like pikers the Buddhist-based national government.Touche!! Equally deplorable and condenable. Suicide tactics shows a complete lack of respect for human live, it does not matter if performed by Muslims, Tamils, Japanese or anyone else. It's the coward's resource, real men fight in the battelfield.You (and others) have invented, mencey, a perfectly nihilist attitude underlying suicide bombing: "complete lack of respect for human life." That's your invention, mencey. What you fail to take into account in your simplistic analysis is that "in the battlefield" the groups from which suicide bombers generally come would be lucky to get rifles and decent boots, whereas their adversaries are often equipped with advanced jet fighters and helicopter gunships and night vision equipment, etc. -- does it really count as "in the battlefield" when one side has so vastly superior weaponry to the other? Are you just espousing a belief in "might makes right" in which you set the rules so that any venue in which your side does not have a near monopoly on violence is ruled out of bounds?It goes down to a very simple sentence, "rule of engagement". If one part does not respect the rules of engagement can not blame the other one for not complying wiht those rules either. If we do not respect the rules of angagement then is back to the jungle. How it will feel wipping out of the map cities or entire countries. OIf a ociety has fail to develop itself for wahtever reason, then it should bear the consecuences instead of making the whole world pay for it.
 
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mencey
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 5:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenQuoteOriginally posted by: menceyQuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenThen the West had no right to expect civil treatment by Muslims after subjugating so many of them in Palestine.Then the Muslims had no right to expect civil treatment by the WestNon sequitur. What was the original sin, and who committed it?QuoteQuote No; in Sri Lanka, where the Hindu Tamil Tigers still resist with violence that makes al Qaeda look like pikers the Buddhist-based national government.Touche!! Equally deplorable and condenable. Suicide tactics shows a complete lack of respect for human live, it does not matter if performed by Muslims, Tamils, Japanese or anyone else. It's the coward's resource, real men fight in the battelfield.No, actually, suicide tactics are in reality more honorable than most violence that goes on. I know that recent events have fucked up a lot of people's ability to reason, but this is simple logic: the suicide attacker essentially says, "The situation is so intolerable that I am willing to sacrifice my life in order to change it;" most violence only indicates a willingness to sacrifice other people's lives in order to change a situation. If there were any possibility that the cost of America's invasion of Iraq were 650,000 American lives, we never would have come within a thousand miles of the place. And yet we were perfectly willing to risk -- and realize -- that many Iraqi deaths.You (and others) have invented, mencey, a perfectly nihilist attitude underlying suicide bombing: "complete lack of respect for human life." That's your invention, mencey. What you fail to take into account in your simplistic analysis is that "in the battlefield" the groups from which suicide bombers generally come would be lucky to get rifles and decent boots, whereas their adversaries are often equipped with advanced jet fighters and helicopter gunships and night vision equipment, etc. -- does it really count as "in the battlefield" when one side has so vastly superior weaponry to the other? Are you just espousing a belief in "might makes right" in which you set the rules so that any venue in which your side does not have a near monopoly on violence is ruled out of bounds?And I must emphatically disagree with you on one point: real men fight in courts of law and justice, not on the battlefield. Real men seek justice, not dominance. And the Arabs, in their disputes with the West, have a long history of seeking reasoned justice and being denied it by the West; even within the last few months the Palestinians have received an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (Israel has blocked a full hearing) that the path of Israel's separation wall is illegal, and Israel (with, as always, US complicity) has ignored it. If you insist that anyone abandon violence, I say you'd damn well better give him some assurance of justice, and this we in the West pointedly have not done with regard to the Muslim World.And by the way, by your post, you do not have a clue what decency means
 
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Hamilton
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 6:02 pm

preading a blanket of condemnationWhat, exactly, is a blanket of condemnation?
 
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zeta
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HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WORKED ALONGSIDE MUSLIMS?

October 27th, 2006, 6:12 pm

a blanket of condemnation meaning broad brushstokes, Hamilton. I've tried to address why specific judgements against legalistic muslims are valid. Perhaps I could illustrate via commenting on Marsden:QuoteNo, actually, suicide tactics are in reality more honorable than most violence that goes on. I know that recent events have fucked up a lot of people's ability to reason, but this is simple logic: the suicide attacker essentially says, "The situation is so intolerable that I am willing to sacrifice my life in order to change it;" most violence only indicates a willingness to sacrifice other people's lives in order to change a situation. If there were any possibility that the cost of America's invasion of Iraq were 650,000 American lives, we never would have come within a thousand miles of the place. And yet we were perfectly willing to risk -- and realize -- that many Iraqi deaths.As an atheist I don't think you're in a position to make that assessment Marsden; as someone who is religious my interpretation is that a person wouldn't even cotemplate suicide if a) they didn't think they would be rewarded b) sins against the infidel could be forgiven with impunity. This is the problem with legalistic religion or self righteousness; it's earned and sins against those who aren't 'righteous' are dismissed. Contrast with Paul "for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"