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Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 6:47 pm

QuoteThe phrase Reductio ad Hitlerum first appeared in Leo Strauss's writings in his 1950 book, Natural Right and History, Chapter II: In following this movement towards its end we shall inevitably reach a point beyond which the scene is darkened by the shadow of Hitler. Unfortunately, it does not go without saying that in our examination we must avoid the fallacy that in the last decades has frequently been used as a substitute for the reductio ad absurdum: the reductio ad Hitlerum. A view is not refuted by the fact that it happens to have been shared by Hitler. Wakipedia and the Argumentum Ad Hitlerum
 
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Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 6:50 pm

QuoteBy attacking other cultures, religions, countries, races, they show their insecurity and inability to deal with reality - it's a sign of immaturity, an arrested mental development. Truth does not matter to these guys. Truth is whatever makes them feel better about themselves. Two year olds will often pretend at something to comfort themselves - these types do the same. Arrested development.Herr Doktor Freud, hav yoo noteeced theez behavior amung yer patients beefour?
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 6:52 pm

indeed to the methods of the Third ReichThe relatively frequent occurrence of such absurd lines of reasoning in Usenet discussions led to the formulation of Godwin's Law in 1990.QuoteAs an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. [
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 6:54 pm

So it is and so it shall be. But debate it we must. Doesn't sound like it will do much good if its mental illness. Wouldn't tranquilizer darts work better?
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 6:55 pm

“We were called to the scene at approximately 7:30 P.M. by local residents,” said Sgt. Lance Peterson of the Atlanta PD. “Upon arrival at the gym, we encountered Mr. E, who was clearly in the middle of a psychotic episode. After repeated pleas for calm, we were forced to subdue him with a tranquilizer dart. Actually, two tranquilizer darts. One is only big enough for a baby elephant.”Shoot First Ask Questions Later
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 7:07 pm

Fairplay --Thanks for your remarks. It is not so much for Hamilton's sake (or for ppauper's sake, or migalley's, or Errrb's, etc. ...) that their drivel must be countered; it is for the sake of potential naifs wondering in and reading it. Just yesterday I was reminded by a newspaper article of the effect of "anchoring," whereby an initial suggestion of what might be the case -- however absurd -- colors perception. So if I ask if you think I have $500 in my wallet, you'll probably say, "No," but if I then ask you how much you think I do have in my wallet, you'll probably give an answer closer to $500 than you would have given had the first question not been asked.And so it is with political drivel. Few people will believe the general refrain, often given, that Islamic society is centered around suicide bombings, beheadings, antisemitism, etc., but upon hearing these things, many are probably more likely to believe that at least Islamic society condones such things.
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 7:30 pm

Nancy --As much as it galls you that I don't go out of my way to condemn the fatwa on Salman Rushdie or the genocide in Darfur, and given your propensity for broadly condemning Islam, have you read the Koran? Shouldn't you, if you are going through the motions of being a Christian, try better to understand your enemies before condemning them?
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 7:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenNancy --As much as it galls you that I don't go out of my way to condemn the fatwa on Salman Rushdie or the genocide in Darfur, and given your propensity for broadly condemning Islam, have you read the Koran? Shouldn't you, if you are going through the motions of being a Christian, try better to understand your enemies before condemning them?I'm too busy reading Averroes errors On the Intellect
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 7:41 pm

QuoteOn the pessimistic side of the equation, concern begins with the Koran itself. In my own reading of the Koran, I began to note down invocations to violence. There are so many of them, however, that I abandoned this exercise after 50 or 60 or 70 pages. I will return to the problems of Koranic interpretation later in this paper, but in coming to an appreciation of the true meaning of jihad, for example, it is important to bear in mind what the scholars tell us about the difference between the suras (or chapters) of the Koran written during Muhammad’s thirteen years in Mecca, and those that were written after he had based himself at Medina. Irenic interpretations of the Koran typically draw heavily on the suras written in Mecca, when Muhammad was without military power and still hoped to win people, including Christians and Jews, to his revelation through preaching and religious activity. After emigrating to Medina, Muhammad formed an alliance with two Yemeni tribes and the spread of Islam through conquest and coercion began[3]. One calculation is that Muhammad engaged in 78 battles, only one of which, the Battle of the Ditch, was defensive[4]. The suras from the Medina period reflect this decisive change and are often held to abrogate suras from the Meccan period[5].Cardinal Pell of Sydney, Australia certainly has
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 7:47 pm

try better to understand your enemies before condemning them? I have yet to find anyone to explain to me where I am in error in saying that Muslim theology believes in Univocal knowledge of God and his revelation, while Catholic theology believes in Analogical knowledge of God. I'm also knee deep in some Crusade history, so my detailed study of the Koran will have to wait awhile. Since literature, history and philosophy are proper preparations for theology, that make take awhile.In the meantime, Hillaire Belloc's Writings on the origins of Islam look as prescient as ever.
 
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TraderJoe
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Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 24th, 2006, 10:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Hamiltonindeed to the methods of the Third ReichThe relatively frequent occurrence of such absurd lines of reasoning in Usenet discussions led to the formulation of Godwin's Law in 1990.QuoteAs an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. What, are you a facist or something ?
 
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flairplay
Posts: 130
Joined: September 26th, 2006, 1:34 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 25th, 2006, 5:00 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonQuoteBy attacking other cultures, religions, countries, races, they show their insecurity and inability to deal with reality - it's a sign of immaturity, an arrested mental development. Truth does not matter to these guys. Truth is whatever makes them feel better about themselves. Two year olds will often pretend at something to comfort themselves - these types do the same. Arrested development.Herr Doktor Freud, hav yoo noteeced theez behavior amung yer patients beefour?Well, you are not my patient but a psychiatrist friend of mine to who I forward these links has identified you as deeply troubled. He is not Muslim. Actually athiest, and one of my better friends. He actually says your mind set is probably not too dissimilar to suicide bomber types. He made the interesting remark that "If this Hamilton guy had been born Muslim then he would probably have been a candidate for a suicide bomber - it's the same mental make up." Quite insightful I think. I'm not joking either. But he says you have company in a few others here - so this is your place to rant and vent. Long as you do it from behind a keyboard at least you know your place.
 
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migalley
Posts: 3696
Joined: June 13th, 2005, 10:54 am

The Great Muslim Debate

October 25th, 2006, 7:41 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenFairplay --Thanks for your remarks. It is not so much for Hamilton's sake (or for ppauper's sake, or migalley's, or Errrb's, etc. ...) that their drivel must be countered; it is for the sake of potential naifs wondering in and reading it. Just yesterday I was reminded by a newspaper article of the effect of "anchoring," whereby an initial suggestion of what might be the case -- however absurd -- colors perception. So if I ask if you think I have $500 in my wallet, you'll probably say, "No," but if I then ask you how much you think I do have in my wallet, you'll probably give an answer closer to $500 than you would have given had the first question not been asked.And so it is with political drivel. Few people will believe the general refrain, often given, that Islamic society is centered around suicide bombings, beheadings, antisemitism, etc., but upon hearing these things, many are probably more likely to believe that at least Islamic society condones such things.I think you've got 5c in your wallet, along with a picture of Ahmadinejad's butt.
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 25th, 2006, 12:09 pm

I'm guessing that migalley is a Westerner rather than a Muslim, so that counts quite a bit in their favor/against us.And that's not Ahmadinejad's butt, actually. Say "hi" to your mom for me.
 
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migalley
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Joined: June 13th, 2005, 10:54 am

The Great Muslim Debate

October 25th, 2006, 12:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: MarsdenI'm guessing that migalley is a Westerner rather than a Muslim, so that counts quite a bit in their favor/against us.And that's not Ahmadinejad's butt, actually. Say "hi" to your mom for me. So it's a picture of Khomeini's butt then?I don't think I'll pass on your greetings to my mom, she would be offended and horrified that a muslim lover was even thinking of saying hi to her.Yes, it's true I'm not a muslim. The luckiest break I ever had!!! I give thanks every day that I'm not a muslim.