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flairplay
Posts: 130
Joined: September 26th, 2006, 1:34 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 4:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperspeed dating in the middle east ?papuper, how do you think Jesus would feel about you posting these things?gardener, what would mohammed think about muslims flying passenger planes into the World Trade Centre killing innocent civilians, or blowing up trains in London, again killing innocent people ?It's a serious question ...I can answer that. He would never have approved. Never. The whole philosophy was exactly the oppositte.The Meccans attacked Medina where Mohammad had immigrated for 10 years running, and broken many attempts at truce. Finally people from Medina took an army to Mecca, and conquered it, tired as they were afer years of defending themselves against big armies from Mecca.Not a single drop of blood was shed, everyone was given amnesty, and every life was considered precious. The Meccans had been expecting retribution - they got none. This is all fact. Karen Armstrong, the ex nun, is as good a source on these topics as any for the Western reader.
 
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TraderJoe
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Posts: 11048
Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 4:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperspeed dating in the middle east ?papuper, how do you think Jesus would feel about you posting these things?gardener, what would mohammed think about muslims flying passenger planes into the World Trade Centre killing innocent civilians, or blowing up trains in London, again killing innocent people ?It's a serious question ...I can answer that. He would never have approved. Never. The whole philosophy was exactly the oppositte.The Meccans attacked Medina where Mohammad had immigrated for 10 years running, and broken many attempts at truce. Finally people from Medina took an army to Mecca, and conquered it, tired as they were afer years of defending themselves against big armies from Mecca.Not a single drop of blood was shed, everyone was given amnesty, and every life was considered precious. The Meccans had been expecting retribution - they got none. This is all fact. Karen Armstrong, the ex nun, is as good a source on these topics as any for the Western reader.Good to hear. Now if you could only go and convince the millions of moslem fanatics of this message, we here in the West would be mightily grateful, brother fairplay.
 
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flairplay
Posts: 130
Joined: September 26th, 2006, 1:34 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 5:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: flairplayQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperspeed dating in the middle east ?papuper, how do you think Jesus would feel about you posting these things?gardener, what would mohammed think about muslims flying passenger planes into the World Trade Centre killing innocent civilians, or blowing up trains in London, again killing innocent people ?It's a serious question ...I can answer that. He would never have approved. Never. The whole philosophy was exactly the oppositte.The Meccans attacked Medina where Mohammad had immigrated for 10 years running, and broken many attempts at truce. Finally people from Medina took an army to Mecca, and conquered it, tired as they were afer years of defending themselves against big armies from Mecca.Not a single drop of blood was shed, everyone was given amnesty, and every life was considered precious. The Meccans had been expecting retribution - they got none. This is all fact. Karen Armstrong, the ex nun, is as good a source on these topics as any for the Western reader.Good to hear. Now if you could only go and convince the millions of moslem fanatics of this message, we here in the West would be mightily grateful, brother fairplay.I think all reasonable people try to convince people to give up hate and war, or murder, and see the benefits of being reasonable.Also I dont think that there are millions of potential terrorists around, though probably it may run into a thousands. I think the numbers are probably on the low side.The problem is that when a small number commit an atrocity, the effect is big, as in the twin towers.So ferreting out potential terrorits - murderers - is the where efforts should be concentrated.These efforts would also be helped if people realised that painting all Muslims and their culture as evil will not help. Some of the Western anger is understandable if not justified, and I think many Muslims reaslise that. Nevertheless anger at an outrage should not go so unbalanced as to to effect all relationships with 1,200,000,000 people on the planet. The Aga Khan, the leader of the Ismaili Muslims, has rightly called this whole conflict "a clash of ignorances". So it is.
 
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Hamilton
Posts: 5976
Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 5:33 pm

a small number commit an atrocity,Perhaps then a review of the education and cultural background of the terrorists who flew the planes into the Twin Towers would be useful.
 
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mencey
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Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 5:51 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Hamiltona small number commit an atrocity,Perhaps then a review of the education and cultural background of the terrorists who flew the planes into the Twin Towers would be useful.You can say it louder but not clearer
 
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Hamilton
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The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 6:00 pm

Karen Armstrong, the ex nun, is as good a source on these topics as any for the Western reader.That's not what this guy says
 
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mencey
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Joined: August 12th, 2002, 11:02 am

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 6:22 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: menceyGerman are to blame for the Nazis harm commited in name of German superiority, yesand you wonder why people think you are prejudiced?Ich habe drei Jahre in Deutschland gewohnen, Ich kenne die Kultur. However, is not a point here to continue in German. So if Germany is not to blame for allowing Nazism raise and seize power, who is to blame though? extraterrestrial life? Education and background of Muslims, rules and philosophy of Islam are to blame of current islamofasicm and islamoterrorism. Face your reponsibility, because you own it.
Last edited by mencey on October 26th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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gardener3
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Joined: April 5th, 2004, 3:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 7:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperspeed dating in the middle east ?papuper, how do you think Jesus would feel about you posting these things?gardener, what would mohammed think about muslims flying passenger planes into the World Trade Centre killing innocent civilians, or blowing up trains in London, again killing innocent people ?It's a serious question ...I think I answered that in a previous post. let me post it again:"I think you missed my point, which was you cannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few. If you are interested, and for what it's worth this is my view. I am agnostic with respect to religion, but this is my interpretation (again for what it's worth): These so called martyrs who are blowing themseleves up, are commiting two sins. First quran strictly forbids suicide, which is considered an insult to God. Second, these people are killing not only themselves but innocent people, in some cases children who have no comprehension of religion, ideology or politics. If you ask my opinion, they will meet the fiery wrath of Allah in hell, not the 70 virgins they expect in heaven. "My question to ppauper was also serious. Since it seems he won't answer, perhaps you can.
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 7:28 pm

cannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few.That's an odd way to phrase. Every member of every group who had any hand in aiding, abetting or encouraging these folks to do this should he held accountable. Or, is there some recent amendment to Western criminal codes which we are unaware of?
 
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gardener3
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Joined: April 5th, 2004, 3:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 7:44 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Hamiltoncannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few.That's an odd way to phrase. Every member of every group who had any hand in aiding, abetting or encouraging these folks to do this should he held accountable. Or, is there some recent amendment to Western criminal codes which we are unaware of?group meaning ethnic, religious, national group.... individuals who had any hand should be held accountable, yes. comdemn a whole religion, no.Unfortunately I am not as articulate as you, hamilton. Yet I think I win over content while losing on style...
Last edited by gardener3 on October 26th, 2006, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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TraderJoe
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Joined: February 1st, 2005, 11:21 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 27th, 2006, 11:03 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: Hamiltoncannot hold a group accountable for tha actions of a lunatic few.That's an odd way to phrase. Every member of every group who had any hand in aiding, abetting or encouraging these folks to do this should he held accountable. Or, is there some recent amendment to Western criminal codes which we are unaware of?group meaning ethnic, religious, national group.... individuals who had any hand should be held accountable, yes. comdemn a whole religion, no.Unfortunately I am not as articulate as you, hamilton. Yet I think I win over content while losing on style...Dream on.
 
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Marsden
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Joined: August 20th, 2001, 5:42 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 28th, 2006, 12:15 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonEvery member of every group who had any hand in aiding, abetting or encouraging these folks to do this should he held accountable. Or, is there some recent amendment to Western criminal codes which we are unaware of?Were you talking about the Bush Administration again? Actually, yes, there has been in effect a recent amendment to Western criminal codes: the Geneva Convention is now "a nice idea" rather than the highest law of the land, as the American Constitution regards it.
 
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Hamilton
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Joined: July 23rd, 2001, 6:25 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 28th, 2006, 12:17 am

American Constitution regards it. Marsden, you're into reruns. We've trod that ground before about 2 years ago if memory serves.
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 28th, 2006, 12:57 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperspeed dating in the middle east ?papuper, how do you think Jesus would feel about you posting these things?we know how muslims feel about it
 
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ppauper
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Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

The Great Muslim Debate

October 28th, 2006, 1:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3"If you ask my opinion, they will meet the fiery wrath of Allah in hell, not the 70 virgins they expect in heaven. "