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dibble
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February 8th, 2007, 4:14 pm

Worst US President Ever?
 
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farmer
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February 8th, 2007, 11:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: dibbleNew Forum pollThat's not "new forum poll," that's "a poll." From your link:QuoteHerbert Hoover: Believed federal relief led to corruption, and therefore refused to provide any aid at all when the Great Depression drove millions into poverty and starvation.Whatever his reasons, Herbert Hoover is credited with saving 10 million people from starvation in Europe, including donating his own personal fortune:QuoteTrapped between German bayonets and a British blockade, Belgium in the fall of 1914 faced imminent starvation. Hoover was asked to undertake an unprecedented relief effort for the tiny kingdom dependent on imports for 80 percent of its food. This would mean abandoning his successful career as the world's foremost mining engineer. For several days he pondered the request, finally telling a friend, "Let the fortune go to hell." He would assume the immense task on two conditions-- that he receive no salary, and that he be given a free hand in organizing and administering what became known as the Commission for the Relief of Belgium.The CRB became, in effect, an independent republic of relief, with its own flag, navy, factories, mills and railroads. Its $12 million a month budget was supplied by voluntary donations and government grants. More than once Hoover made personal pledges far in excess of his total worth. In an early form of shuttle diplomacy he crossed the North Sea 40 times seeking to persuade the enemies in London and Berlin to allow food to reach the war's victims. He also taught the Belgians, who regarded cornmeal as cattle feed, to eat cornmeal. In all, the CRB saved ten million people from starvation.
 
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farmer
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February 8th, 2007, 11:24 pm

QuoteIn August, 1914, the Hoovers were living in London. As war broke out in Europe, thousands of American tourists flooded into London trying to book passage back to the states. The US Embassy asked Hoover to help with these stranded American travelers. Hoover headed the Committee of American Residents in London for Assistance to American Travellers. This committee accommodated over 120,000 Americans. Besides loaning stranded Americans funds, the committee helped get them passage on ships, and in the meantime helped them get food and lodging in England. This committee made loans and IOUs totaling over one million dollars. All but $300 dollars of this amount was repaid.QuoteWith a call from Walter Hines Page, the American Ambassador, and some conversations with Emile Francqui, a Belgian Banker, Hoover decided to make the Belgian cause his personal crusade. This commitment breathed life into the Committee for Relief of Belgium. Hoover was faced with many obstacles: he would have to find a food supply great enough to feed 10 million people every day; he would have to find trucks, ships and trains to carry the tons of food; he would have to find money to pay for the food and the shipping; he would have to find someone to distribute the food so that all got a fair share; he would have to work on the problems of the German army trying to take the food, and the British navy trying to stop the food from reaching enemy territory. Faced with all of these seemingly insurmountable problems, Hoover dug in and did the job. Hoover relied on his three greatest strengths to pull off this monumental task: his technical ability, his practicality, and his morality.The conditions in Belgium and Herbert Hoover's ability to do something about it presented a moral imperative. Hoover's policy was to accept no salary or remuneration and many of his colleagues followed his example. The CRB (Committee for Relief of Belgium) would organize the charity of the world through public opinion, get an America volunteer staff in Belgium for the relief work, and would assure the Allies and Germany that the CRB was a neutral effort. All of the problems that Hoover faced were new. Never in history was there a situation like the Belgian tragedy. Through the four years of the war Hoover's CRB fed eleven million people in Belgium and northern France, and he collected more than one billion dollars to finance the operations.When the CRB found that growing children needed a special diet to fend off disease, they invented a special cookie containing all the essential foods needed for growing children. This was served every day with milk and a stew to over 2.5 million children. For Hoover, his greatest joy was to see the children growing cheerful and noisy again. The American people were behind the Belgian relief. States even sent "state food ships" to Belgium. Shiploads of clothes went too. Hoover had requested that an accounting firm keep the books and records for the CRB so that at no time in the future anyone could say that the committee either stole or made money from the relief effort. When the auditors presented a final report on the finances of the CRB it showed that less than 1/2 of 1 percent of the CRB money had been used for administrative expenses.In a message from Walter Hines Page, the American ambassador to England, to President Woodrow Wilson, Page describes Herbert Hoover as, "Simple, modest, energetic little man who began his career in California and will end it in Heaven, and he doesn't want anyone's thanks." This really sums up the way in which Hoover operated the CRB for the duration of the war. He gave a personal commitment to the Belgian cause and he wasn't looking for any platitudes from it. He refused various groups' honors for his relief work.
 
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TraderJoe
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February 8th, 2007, 11:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: dibbleWorst US President Ever?That's 89% to Bush. Go W!
 
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dibble
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February 9th, 2007, 8:20 am

The Worst President Ever
 
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ppauper
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February 9th, 2007, 2:00 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: dibbleWorst US President Ever?That's 89% to Bush. Go W!how do I cast a write-in vote for bj clinton ?
 
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farmer
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February 9th, 2007, 3:56 pm

People like dibble really are not hard to please. I've already shown how their quote on Hoover is nonsense. It is also interesting to note that two other of their "worst Presidents" were elected to second terms.
 
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dibble
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February 9th, 2007, 4:26 pm

1) I normally do not quote on uncredited quotes, but it would seem that Hoover like Bush is willing to spend money abroad but showed little concern for his own citizens at home.2) The number of terms of a president does not necessarily equate to their ability in office. The number of terms is probably more related with how good their marketing department is. History is a better judge of a president.
 
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farmer
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February 9th, 2007, 5:31 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: dibble1) I normally do not quote on uncredited quotesWhatever, you just linked a poll with a nonsense characterization of Herbert Hoover. And I am sure you not only quoted on it, but voted in it without any personal knowledge of the Presidents in the poll.But I guess that could explain the votes for Bush, people like you who don't comment on Presidents they know nothing about. And also too dumb to realize they are commenting on them anyway.Knock knock, is anybody home?
 
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farmer
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February 9th, 2007, 5:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: dibblehow good their marketing department is. History is a better judge of a president.Earth to you, you just judged a sitting President - in comparison to historical Presidents - and encouraged others to do so. Are you ready to admit you have a problem and seek help?So can people during a President's time in office judge him or not?
 
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dibble
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February 9th, 2007, 7:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: dibblehow good their marketing department is. History is a better judge of a president.Earth to you, you just judged a sitting President - in comparison to historical Presidents - and encouraged others to do so. Are you ready to admit you have a problem and seek help?So can people during a President's time in office judge him or not?The difference is that even with his marketing department he still comes off looking like "The Worst President Ever"
 
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TraderJoe
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February 9th, 2007, 7:51 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteOriginally posted by: dibbleWorst US President Ever?That's 89% to Bush. Go W!how do I cast a write-in vote for bj clinton ?A very good point mr ppauper.
 
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dibble
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February 9th, 2007, 8:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: dibble1) I normally do not quote on uncredited quotesWhatever, you just linked a poll with a nonsense characterization of Herbert Hoover. And I am sure you not only quoted on it, but voted in it without any personal knowledge of the Presidents in the poll.But I guess that could explain the votes for Bush, people like you who don't comment on Presidents they know nothing about. And also too dumb to realize they are commenting on them anyway.Knock knock, is anybody home?So you will not share your sources. How am I to learn the error of my ways. ?
 
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dibble
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February 9th, 2007, 10:58 pm

In the immortal words of dibble QuoteIf you do not have a bibliography, then you do not have jack shitOr in another one of his inimitable quotes QuoteIf you do not know how to back an argument, well then do not waste my timeSo in this spirit, we have an essay by Stephen Sachs. Student at Yale Law School, with bibliography in tow. QuoteThe tragedy of Herbert Hoover signaled more than the personal failure of an inflexible or uninspiring President: it signaled the inability of a formerly successful philosophy to solve the problems of new times.QuoteThe tragedy of Herbert Hoover was that he clung to the beliefs of his triumphant days even after those days had passed: as a result, the successes of the Great Engineer have been forgotten, and all that is remembered is a President’s failure.The Triumph and Tragedy of 'American Individualism'
 
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Marsden
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February 9th, 2007, 11:27 pm

It's kind of entertaining to watch Stephen/farmer's efforts at turd-polishing.Just one question, Stephen: was Herbert Hoover President in 1914, when he did all those wonderful things that you mention? So what does any of it have to do with his performance as President? Do we consider Stalin's tap-dancing career when measuring his effect as a dictator?
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