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mdubuque
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 4th, 2007, 9:46 pm

But does Hamilton care?MattPope says rich nations "plundered" Third WorldWed Apr 4, 2007 6:26 AM ETBy Philip PullellaVATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Rich countries bent on power and profit have mercilessly "plundered and sacked" Africa and other poor regions and exported to them the "cynicism of a world without God," Pope Benedict writes in his first book.The Pope also condemns drug trafficking and sexual tourism, saying they are signs of a world brimming with "people who are empty" yet living among abundant material goods.One section of the book was printed in Wednesday's Corriere Della Sera daily before publication later this month by Italian publisher Rizzoli, which owns the newspaper. A Rizzoli spokeswoman confirmed the authenticity of the excerpts.In the 400-page book, called "Jesus of Nazareth," the Pope offers a modern application of Jesus's parable of the Good Samaritan, who stopped to help a man who had been robbed by thieves when others, including a priest, had not."The current relevance of the parable is obvious," the Pope writes."If we apply it to the dimensions of globalised society today, we see how the populations of Africa have been plundered and sacked and this concerns us intimately," the Pope says in his book, which comes out on April 16, his 80th birthday.He drew a link between the lifestyle of people in the developed world and the dire conditions of people in Africa.STRIPPED NAKED"We see how our lifestyle, the history that involved us, has stripped them naked and continues to strip them naked," he writes.The German Pope, who has condemned the effects of colonialism before, said rich countries had also hurt poor countries spiritually by belittling or trying to wipe out their own cultural and spiritual traditions."Instead of giving them God, the God close to us in Christ, and welcoming in their traditions all that is precious and great ... we have brought them the cynicism of a world without God, where only power and profit count...," he writes.The Pope says his comments were valid for other regions apart from Africa.In what could be seen as a strong self-criticism of the Roman Catholic Church, whose missionary activities often went hand-in-glove with colonialism, the Pope writes:"We destroyed (their) moral criteria to the point that corruption and a lust for power devoid of scruples have become obvious." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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TraderJoe
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 4th, 2007, 9:56 pm

He's 100% right.
 
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Hamilton
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 12:39 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeHe's 100% right.QuoteBenedict XVI's views appear to be similar to those of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, in maintaining the traditional positions on birth control, abortion, and homosexuality and promoting Catholic social teaching. Benedict has criticized genetic manipulation and the cloning of human embryos. He has said that even "good goals" cannot justify such means. Although teaching opposition to death penalty, he has stated that there may be among Catholics a "legitimate diversity of opinion"[15].He has also defended the traditional Church position on the indissolubility of marriage and thus rejected that the divorced be allowed to remarry during their spouses' lifetime. In a 1994 letter to the bishops he said that those who do so are not in a state to receive communion.[16]Ratzinger has maintained that the Catholic Church does not possess the authority to ordain women to the priestly sacramental ministry (the Vatican, and the Catholic Church by extension, have long held that this is shown by Jesus's choosing only men as apostles, saying this was the constant practice and consistent teaching of the Church).During the 1980s, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, he criticized liberation theologians and twice silenced proponent Leonardo Boff.In The Spirit of the Liturgy in 2000, Ratzinger attacked Rock and Roll as "the expression of elemental passions" and described some rock concerts as becoming "a form of worship ... in opposition to Christian worship." However, he is a great lover of classical and folk music, and included much new music into his recent pastoral visit to Cologne.Popeopedia
 
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Hamilton
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 12:41 am

QuotePope rejects condoms for AfricaSouth African President Thabo Mbeki with Pope Benedict XVI in MayThe Pope has already met South African President Thabo MbekiThe spread of HIV and Aids in Africa should be tackled through fidelity and abstinence and not by condoms, Pope Benedict XVI has said.Speaking to African bishops at the Vatican, the Pope described HIV/Aids in Africa as a "cruel epidemic".But he told them: "The traditional teaching of the church has proven to be the only failsafe way to prevent the spread of HIV/Aids." Where the rubber hits the road
 
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Hamilton
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 12:43 am

QuoteBut slavery lives on, in all its ancient horror, though politicians, artists, and the media have little to say about it. In the West African nation of Mauritania, between eighty and ninety thousand human beings are owned outright by other people, according to the American Anti- Slavery Group, Human Rights Watch/Africa, and the U.S. State Department. Most are black tribesmen owned by the dark-skinned Berbers known as the Moors. Across the continent, in the war-ravaged Sudan, chattel slaves number in the tens of thousands, according to Christian Solidarity International. Most are the children of black Christian and animist villagers, taken in raids by their traditional Arab enemies, now formed into militia by the Muslim government in Khartoum in its war to subdue the south.African Slavery 1996
 
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Hamilton
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 12:45 am

QuoteFor many centuries the Church was part of a slave-holding society. The popes themselves held slaves, including at times hundreds of Muslim captives to man their galleys. Throughout Christian antiquity and the Middle Ages, theologians generally followed St. Augustine in holding that although slavery was not written into the natural moral law it was not absolutely forbidden by that law. St. Thomas Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin were all Augustinian on this point. Although the subjection of one person to another (servitus) was not part of the primary intention of the natural law, St. Thomas taught, it was appropriate and socially useful in a world impaired by original sin.The leaven of the gospel gradually alleviated the evils of slavery, at least in medieval Europe. Serfdom did not involve the humiliation and brutality people today ordinarily associate with slavery. Moral theologians recognized that slaves, unlike mere chattels, had certain rights even against their masters, who no longer had over them the power of life and death, as had been the case in pagan antiquity.For St. Thomas, slaves (servi) had the right to food, sleep, marriage, and the rearing of their children. Provision had also to be made for them to fulfill their religious duties, and they were to be treated with benevolence. With the conquest of the New World and the enslavement of whole populations of Indians and Africans, theologians such as Bartolomé de Las Casas and Cajetan began to object to the injustices of subjecting conquered peoples and of engaging in the lucrative slave trade. Some prominent Catholics of the early nineteenth century, including J.M. Sailer, Daniel O’Connell, and the Comte de Montalembert, together with many Protestants, pressed for the total abolition of slavery.Throughout this period the popes were far from silent. As soon as the enslavement of native populations by European colonists started, they began to protest, although Noonan gives only a few isolated examples. Eugene IV in 1435 condemned the enslavement of the peoples of the newly colonized Canary Islands and, under pain of excommunication, ordered all such slaves to be immediately set free. Pius II and Sixtus IV emphatically repeated these prohibitions. In a bull addressed to all the faithful of the Christian world Paul III in 1537 condemned the enslavement of Indians in North and South America. Gregory XIV in 1591 ordered the freeing of all the Filipino slaves held by Spaniards. Urban VIII in 1639 issued a bull applying the principles of Paul III to Portuguese colonies in South America and requiring the liberation of all Indian slaves.In 1781 Benedict XIV renewed the call of previous popes to free the Indian slaves of South America. Thus it was no break with previous teaching when Gregory XVI in 1839 issued a general condemnation of the enslavement of Indians and Blacks. In particular, he condemned the importation of Negro slaves from Africa. Leo XIII followed along the path set by Gregory XVI.Although the popes condemned the enslavement of innocent populations and the iniquitous slave trade, they did not teach that all slaves everywhere should immediately be emancipated. At the time of the Civil War, very few Catholics in the United States felt that papal teaching required them to become abolitionists.Bishop John England stood with the tradition in holding that there could be just titles to slavery. Bishop Francis P. Kenrick held that slavery did not necessarily violate the natural law. Archbishop John Hughes contended that slavery was an evil but not an absolute evil. Orestes Brownson, while denying that slavery was malum in se, came around to favor emancipation as a matter of policy.In 1863 John Henry Newman penned some fascinating reflections on slavery. A fellow Catholic, William T. Allies, asked him to comment on a lecture he was planning to give, asserting that slavery was intrinsically evil. Newman replied that, although he would like to see slavery eliminated, he could not go so far as to condemn it as intrinsically evil. For if it were, St. Paul would have had to order Philemon, “liberate all your slaves at once.” Newman, as I see it, stood with the whole Catholic tradition. In 1866 the Holy Office, in response to an inquiry from Africa, ruled that although slavery (servitus) was undesirable, it was not per se opposed to natural or divine law. This ruling pertained to the kind of servitude that was customary in certain parts of Africa at the time. Development or Reversal?
 
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migalley
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 9:42 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonFor many centuries the Church was part of a slave-holding society. The popes themselves held slaves, including at times hundreds of Muslim captives to man their galleys. Best place for them. "Row harder, number 41!"
 
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dibble
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 1:06 pm

These rules are man made. Your books are from a time that slavery was the norm. The writers would not think of condemning slavery because they were humans who were only aware of their own time and place.It does not mean that slavery is not opposed to natural or divine law, per se, it just means that your books lack inspiration, divine or otherwise and are now out of date, per se.Though I do like the fact that since the church lawyers could not explain their way out of the church's sad history, they came up with "everybody's doing it" as their excuse.
 
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zeta
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 1:33 pm

while you may find it uninspired, the story didn't end at the old testament and it doesn't take a genius to see that slavery is very contradictory to both the spirit and message of the gospel or new testament.
 
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gardener3
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 4:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zetawhile you may find it uninspired, the story didn't end at the old testament and it doesn't take a genius to see that slavery is very contradictory to both the spirit and message of the gospel or new testament.And where in the new testament is slavery condemned as being immoral and evil?Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5)
 
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farmer
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 4:38 pm

Sure, but money can only go so far. Blowjobs you have to get in person. So assuming we can pay some local thug to line'em up in Zambia or some other crap-hole. Who wants to fly over there with me and take'em down in person?****Bring protection. G*d forbid we should miscegenate with those douchebags and take them off the extinction list.
 
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zeta
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 4:44 pm

to enslave someone is clearly contradictory to the gospel, I don't think we need to argue. The fact that Paul would suggest that slaves need to be respectful isn't an endorsement of slavery?
 
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dibble
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 5:33 pm

ZetaI guess the issue is why do you think that 1) "to enslave someone is clearly contradictory to the gospel" and2) "I don't think we need to argue," when there is not agreement on your first pointps: "The fact that Paul would suggest that slaves need to be respectful isn't an endorsement of slavery?". This point could be argued. Why did he tell the slave owners to be respectful of their slaves. Why would he not say that slavery is wrong. I think his priorities need to be questioned.Besides the points above, I agree whole heartedly with your post
 
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farmer
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 6:36 pm

Generally speaking, slavery has only occurred where it raised the productivity of the slave, measured in the number of children he could support.If slavery is some kind of immoral imprisonment, then how come they don't usually need walls like other prisoners? Quite often prisoners have been compelled to perform labor. But slaves not imprisoned generally enjoyed high productivity.The equation is something like P-C, where P is productivity, and C is the cost of securing the fruits of (and compelling) that productivity. Usually P-C is greater in trade than in slavery, except when dealing with the lowliest of savages. Yuck...But anyway, "slavery" may simply be the term used when the employee is too dumb even to walk straight or put hand to mouth. As to the morality of various reasons why people have been imprisoned throughout history, Paul was very much ahead of his time.
Last edited by farmer on April 4th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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zeta
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Pope Says Rich Nations Plundered Poor Nations

April 5th, 2007, 7:11 pm

okay lads this is my interpretation: the gospel is an idea which liberates, not enslaves cf "when the son sets you free". The fact that we have authorities over us who deprive of us of doing everything we feel compelled to do (law) all the way to enslaving us (complete deprivation of liberty) doesn't invalidate "respect the authority over you". The example Paul makes is always with Christ who was submissive to the point of giving up his life. see what you think and we'll take it from there
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