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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 13th, 2007, 5:51 pm

Who here has read "The Origin of Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"?
Last edited by CactusMan on April 12th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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rmax
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Conciousness Discussion

April 13th, 2007, 8:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AlanYeah, I agree with all your last comments. Sports is really a bad example fortruly human consciousness. In principle, I believe we already know everything we needto know to build a tennis playing robot. But we have no clue as to how build a machinewith close-to-human consciousness.My main proposal is that our sense of consciousness may not be so mysterious, but merelyan internal dialog. Questions about consciousness should then reduce to questions about language -- how we acquired it, how it really works, etc. Hard questions, but perhaps a routeto building that machine I mention above. If someone sees a good counter-example to thisproposal -- an aspect of truly human consciousness that seems separate from language --would like to hear it.I agree. I have probably mentioned it on this forum before, but I think that the Turing test is a poor example of intelligence. it is a better test of how to decode language. Language also has some interesting elements around Universal Grammar (proposed by Chomsky). Don't have time to go into it all now, will try later next week.
 
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GrenvilleCroll
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Conciousness Discussion

April 15th, 2007, 10:35 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4Alpha Consciousness is probably more an outgrowth of our large amounts of brain tissue (relative to body size) than some special property of that tissueBeg to disagree - there are intelligent humans with miniscule amounts of brain tissue.
 
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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 20th, 2007, 7:46 pm

Also, consider children: Physically small brains, yet concious and intelligent (lacking only experience, education, and maturity).
Last edited by CactusMan on April 19th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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mdubuque
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Conciousness Discussion

April 25th, 2007, 2:58 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManWho here has read "The Origin of Conciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"?I have read that ancient book. Borders on the trivial. It is far more interesting to study how the hemispheres work together (remember there are 600 million connections ACROSS the corpus callosum) than trying to extrapolate from taking an axe and severing the hemispheres. Let's not pretend that 600 million connections that have been severed have no material effect on hemispheric integration. Please.Look at how much unifies the hemispheres, which split brain work can never discuss; the forming of poetry, the production of dreams.Matt
 
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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 25th, 2007, 2:08 pm

Interesting. I definitely agree with this last part.I think the book ultimately failed, but it raised some good points and observations. It was a good stab at a very difficult problem.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Conciousness Discussion

April 25th, 2007, 3:23 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: mdubuqueQuoteOriginally posted by: CactusManWho here has read "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"?.... Let's not pretend that 600 million connections that have been severed have no material effect on hemispheric integration. ......But the split brain examples do pose some interesting questions. Are split brain people no longer conscious? Or are "they" now two consciousnesses? And if they are two separate consciousnesses, then do they have two souls? Or is consciousness somehow restricted to only one of the hemispheres?
 
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Alan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 25th, 2007, 6:15 pm

Ages ago, I was lucky enough to take Sperry's psychobiology course on this. But it's been soooo long. Anyway, my vague sense today is that language ability is dispersed across the hemispheres, but dominant in one. So to me, this suggests two consciousnesses, one dominant.I think this was a star trek episode
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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 25th, 2007, 9:11 pm

It has been said that to be concious, a creature must have had parents who were concious. What about that?
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Alan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 26th, 2007, 1:34 am

Good question.Well, to me, truly human consciousness is an artifact of language.But even if you don't accept that, let's just agree that there is such a thing as "truly human consciousness".Since I also believe in evolution, it means that this, like other aspects of being human, has evolved.Because it's evolved, it's a property that follows from our genes. We don't know exactly what gene sequence(s) arerequired, but for purposes of discussion, let's call it sequence X.So, your question, to me is essentially asking "did every creature with gene sequence X have parents with gene sequence X?"Logically, the answer must be no, since that is the nature of evolution.Of course, by the same argument, the same answer follows for any particular brand of animal consciousness.
 
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Alan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 26th, 2007, 1:43 pm

The first human baby with gene sequence X was certainly a prodigy of the era.Unfortunately, the parents were clueless about this
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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 26th, 2007, 9:12 pm

Was the famous "Wild Boy of France" concious?(The boy who got lost and raised himself in the wild like an animal.)
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Alan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 27th, 2007, 1:23 am

From five minutes of googling, it sounds like he certainly hadan animal consciousness, but not the full inner dialog I associate with true human consciousness.Earlier, I mentioned that I believe that very young children, prior to language acquisition,are "pre-conscious" in this way. But most get over it. This poor guy sounds like he was not only pre-conscious, but stuck there, for reasons we'llnever puzzle out now.
 
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rmax
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Conciousness Discussion

April 27th, 2007, 11:37 am

When I look back at my conciousness, I am not sure I was, or am always concious - when think back to my memories of being a child for instance. I think it is probably something that rises and falls - when I play a sport there is no internal diaglouge at that point, so what is my state of mind then? Probably the very nebulous nature of conciousness means that it is difficult to define.
 
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CactusMan
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Conciousness Discussion

April 27th, 2007, 7:11 pm

Quote... a property that follows from our genes. ...But isn't every cell in the body genetically a like? You wouldn't have me believe my big toe is concious, now? (Though for some guys, other body parts seem to do the thinking!)
Last edited by CactusMan on April 26th, 2007, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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