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Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 8:16 am
by Cuchulainn
riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend 1 of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to 2 Howth Castle and Environs. 3 Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passen- 4 core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy 5 isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor 6 had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse 7 to Laurens County's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper 8 all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to 9 tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a 10 kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in 11 vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a 12 peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory 13 end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface. 14 The fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner- 15 ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur- 16 nuk!) of a once wallstrait oldparr is retaled early in bed and later 17 on life down through all christian minstrelsy. The great fall of the 18 offwall entailed at such short notice the pftjschute of Finnegan, 19 erse solid man, that the humptyhillhead of humself prumptly sends 20 an unquiring one well to the west in quest of his tumptytumtoes: 21 and their upturnpikepointandplace is at the knock out in the park 22 where oranges have been laid to rust upon the green since dev- 23 linsfirst loved livvy. 24 #1

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 8:26 am
by Cuchulainn
QuoteNow (to forebare for ever solittle of Iris Trees and Lili O'Ran-gans), concerning the genesis of Harold or Humphrey Chimp-den's occupational agnomen (we are back in the presurnamesprodromarith period, of course just when enos chalked halltraps)and discarding once for all those theories from older sources whichwould link him back with such pivotal ancestors as the Glues, theGravys, the Northeasts, the Ankers and the Earwickers of Sidles-ham in the Hundred of Manhood or proclaim him offsprout ofvikings who had founded wapentake and seddled hem in Herrickor Eric, the best authenticated version, the Dumlat, read theReading of Hofed-ben-Edar, has it that it was this way.#2

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 10:14 am
by Traden4Alpha
This vaguely reminds me of the text that spammers add to their e-mails to fool the filters. Its an interesting example that deftly mixes coherence and incoherence on multiple scales.

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 12:06 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaThis vaguely reminds me of the text that spammers add to their e-mails to fool the filters. Its an interesting example that deftly mixes coherence and incoherence on multiple scales.QuoteI've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant, and that's the only way of insuring one's immortality. James Joyce Trad4: are you saying that JJ was the world's first spammer?

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 12:34 pm
by Traden4Alpha
QuoteLaboriously written by: James JoyceI've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant, and that's the only way of insuring one's immortality.Well, his 600+ pages has certainly done that. But wouldn't it be easier to find some tough math problem and write:QuoteSuccinctly jotted by: Pierre de Fermat"I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain."Re: JJ==spammer, I'd wager that the words "cialis," "viagra", etc. are somewhere in text strings of Finnigans....

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 12:36 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteWell, his 600+ pages has certainly done that.QuoteIn the movie Enough, Jennifer Lopez's character mentions that the book, "is the hardest book to read in the English language" and she has been reading it for 6 years, though she says later it was not true.

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 1:17 pm
by Traden4Alpha
QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteWell, his 600+ pages has certainly done that.QuoteIn the movie Enough, Jennifer Lopez's character mentions that the book, "is the hardest book to read in the English language" and she has been reading it for 6 years, though she says later it was not true. I'd quibble with JL's phrase "in the English language" given JJ's penchant for prumptly's and tumptytumtoes. I suspect that any spell checking software would have a heap overflow and core dump on Finnegans. Perhaps Finnegans is as close to Shakespeare as the monkeys-and-typewriters brigade will come to creating a "book."EDIT: spelling

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 2:21 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteTrad4 Perhaps Finnegans is as close to Shakespeare as the monkeys-and-typewriters brigade will come to creating a "book." QuoteJJ“Shakespeare is the happy hunting ground of all minds that have lost their balance.” Plot Summary

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 14th, 2007, 4:33 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteLaboriously written by: James JoyceI've put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant, and that's the only way of insuring one's immortality.Well, his 600+ pages has certainly done that. But wouldn't it be easier to find some tough math problem and write:QuoteSuccinctly jotted by: Pierre de Fermat"I have a truly marvelous demonstration of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain."Re: JJ==spammer, I'd wager that the words "cialis," "viagra", etc. are somewhere in text strings of Finnigans.... Not quite, but look at thisQuoteMurray Gell-Mann hereIn 1963, when I assigned the name "quark" to the fundamental constituents of the nucleon, I had the sound first, without the spelling, which could have been "kwork." Then, in one of my occasional perusals of Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce, I came across the word "quark" in the phrase "Three quarks for Muster Mark." Since "quark" (meaning, for one thing, the cry of a gull) was clearly intended to rhyme with "Mark," as well as "bark" and other such words, I had to find an excuse to pronounce it as "kwork." But the book represents the dreams of a publican named Humphrey Chimpden Earwicker. Words in the text are typically drawn from several sources at once, like the "portmanteau words" in Through the Looking Glass. From time to time, phrases occur in the book that are partially determined by calls for drinks at the bar. I argued, therefore, that perhaps one of the multiple sources of the cry "Three quarks for Muster Mark" might be "Three quarts for Mister Mark," in which case the pronunciation "kwork" would not be totally unjustified. In any case, the number three fitted perfectly the way quarks occur in nature.James Joyce. Finnegan's Wake. Book 2, Episode 4, Page 383 Three quarks for Muster Mark!Sure he hasn't got much of a barkAnd sure any he has it's all beside the mark.But O, Wreneagle Almighty, wouldn't un be a sky of a larkTo see that old buzzard whooping about for uns shirt in the darkAnd he hunting round for uns speckled trousers around by Palmerstown Park?Hohohoho, moulty Mark!You're the rummest old rooster ever flopped out of a Noah's arkAnd you think you're cock of the wark.Fowls, up! Tristy's the spry young sparkThat'll tread her and wed her and bed her and red herWithout ever winking the tail of a featherAnd that's how that chap's going to make his money and mark!

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 15th, 2007, 8:11 am
by Cuchulainn
Viconian Cycle Quotecommodius vicus: Vico argued that civilization develops in a recurring cycle (ricorso) of three ages: the divine, the heroic, and the human. Each age exhibits distinct political and social features and can be characterized by master tropes or figures of language.

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 15th, 2007, 1:45 pm
by Traden4Alpha
No doubt, Joyce did instill a great quantity of intentional meaning in his book.I wonder, though, to what extent all the analysis and criticism of a book such as FW isn't the literary equivalent of technical analysis. For better or worse, humans are extremely deft at finding patterns in both arrays of numbers and strings of text. I'm sure its possible to read all manner of meaning into Joyce's enigmatic words, but how much of it is overfitting? How much of the Viconian Cycle analysis is the equivalent to Elliot Waves, Gann Angles, and Fibonacci numbers??? Can we ever know?The big difference between literary analysis and market data analysis is that the market eventually reveals the true answer to provide an reckoning of the analysts. We can spot the overfitters by their trading losses. No such analog occurs on the literary side, especially after the author is dead. It's too bad that Joyce didn't create a time-locked Answer Guide (or at least a dictionary) to Finnigans.

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 15th, 2007, 4:57 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaNo doubt, Joyce did instill a great quantity of intentional meaning in his book.QuoteJoyce's last book does not attempt to re-create everyday reality of in the way Ulysses does. Instead, Joyce creates a reality of his ownQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaThe big difference between literary analysis and market data analysis is that the market eventually reveals the true answer to provide an reckoning of the analysts. We can spot the overfitters by their trading losses. No such analog occurs on the literary side, especially after the author is dead. It's too bad that Joyce didn't create a time-locked Answer Guide (or at least a dictionary) to Finnigans.Relativity Theory

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 16th, 2007, 8:45 pm
by TraderJoe

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 17th, 2007, 3:03 pm
by Cuchulainn
QuoteOriginally posted by: TraderJoeQuoteNo, assuredly, they are not justified, those gloompourers who grouse that letters have never been quite their old selves again since that weird weekday in bleak Janiveer... when to the shock of both, Biddy Doran looked at literature...

Finnegans Wake, by James Joyce

Posted: July 17th, 2007, 9:55 pm
by TraderJoe