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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

May 31st, 2017, 7:56 am

ppauper wrote:

They will draw the shortest straw. Plastic straws were invented by liberals.
 
 
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ppauper
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

October 12th, 2017, 9:45 am

 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

October 12th, 2017, 7:37 pm

ppauper wrote:

Wussies. E.coli is harmless.
A bigger scare is "relabelling' chicken .. smoke screen.
 
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ppauper
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 5th, 2018, 11:30 am

we've talked about this before
'Latte levy' of 25p urged by MPs in bid to cut cup waste

pretty soon, the brits are going to need a backpack to carry all the stuff they need (reusable grocery bags, reusable coffee mug, reusable water bottle,.....)
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 5th, 2018, 11:37 am

ppauper wrote:
we've talked about this before
'Latte levy' of 25p urged by MPs in bid to cut cup waste

pretty soon, the brits are going to need a backpack to carry all the stuff they need (reusable grocery bags, reusable coffee mug, reusable water bottle,.....)

just ban latte and cappucino. 

None of that nonsense in USA; just throw away when used once. So 60s.
 
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tw
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Joined: May 10th, 2002, 3:30 pm

Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 5th, 2018, 1:05 pm

ppauper wrote:
we've talked about this before
'Latte levy' of 25p urged by MPs in bid to cut cup waste

pretty soon, the brits are going to need a backpack to carry all the stuff they need (reusable grocery bags, reusable coffee mug, reusable water bottle,.....)

It kinda feels like the wrong approach.
It could be argued that the price of coffee at retail outlets has zero price elasticity (jaded Brits pay arbitrary prices for the latest coffee confection)
therefore 25p is barely noticed whereas if they get charged per kilo to have their rubbish taken away there will be outrage.
Socialised landfill costs that appear at a fixed rate in council tax (or the equivalent for business properties) do not create the right incentives.

If I recall correctly the  term "dustbin" comes from the Victorian era where as much household waste as possible was burnt because, in part, the ash had a resale value but also taking rubbish away had a unit cost.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 5th, 2018, 1:52 pm

tw wrote:
ppauper wrote:
we've talked about this before
'Latte levy' of 25p urged by MPs in bid to cut cup waste

pretty soon, the brits are going to need a backpack to carry all the stuff they need (reusable grocery bags, reusable coffee mug, reusable water bottle,.....)

It kinda feels like the wrong approach.
It could be argued that the price of coffee at retail outlets has zero price elasticity (jaded Brits pay arbitrary prices for the latest coffee confection)
therefore 25p is barely noticed whereas if they get charged per kilo to have their rubbish taken away there will be outrage.
Socialised landfill costs that appear at a fixed rate in council tax (or the equivalent for business properties) do not create the right incentives.

If I recall correctly the  term "dustbin" comes from the Victorian era where as much household waste as possible was burnt because, in part, the ash had a resale value but also taking rubbish away had a unit cost.
I'd wager that the actual total cost of each disposable coffee cup including all the socialized landfill and environmental costs is extremely low. (And landfilled properly, said cups are actually a CO2 sequestration method.)

Moreover, said costs would be tiny compared to the additional healthcare costs induced by people handing over reusable germ-covered cups to a barista which makes said cups the perfect vector for spreading communicable diseases.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 10:44 am

I'd wager that the actual total cost of each disposable coffee cup including all the socialized landfill and environmental costs is extremely low. (And landfilled properly, said cups are actually a CO2 sequestration method.)

You can wager all you want :D I'm not convinced.

More precisely, it's the tax-payer that pays for the processing of this waste and not those _almost_zero_%_tax paying companies that produce this plastic in the fist place.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 1:25 pm

Cuchulainn wrote:
I'd wager that the actual total cost of each disposable coffee cup including all the socialized landfill and environmental costs is extremely low. (And landfilled properly, said cups are actually a CO2 sequestration method.)

You can wager all you want :D I'm not convinced.

More precisely, it's the tax-payer that pays for the processing of this waste and not those _almost_zero_%_tax paying companies that produce this plastic in the fist place.
Ah, so the rich pay for it, because they pay the bulk of the taxes.

And if we're going to charge companies for the downstream environmental impacts of their products (so they can charge consumers for those costs), then reusable cups need a yuge tax to cover the carbon footprint of the hot water used to clean them.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 1:57 pm

Traden4Alpha wrote:
Cuchulainn wrote:
I'd wager that the actual total cost of each disposable coffee cup including all the socialized landfill and environmental costs is extremely low. (And landfilled properly, said cups are actually a CO2 sequestration method.)

You can wager all you want :D I'm not convinced.

More precisely, it's the tax-payer that pays for the processing of this waste and not those _almost_zero_%_tax paying companies that produce this plastic in the fist place.

Ah, so the rich pay for it, because they pay the bulk of the taxes.

And if we're going to charge companies for the downstream environmental impacts of their products (so they can charge consumers for those costs), then reusable cups need a yuge tax to cover the carbon footprint of the hot water used to clean them.

No, that's not what I am saying and you know that. 
Most small and medium LLCs and companies pay 35% tax while some big fish pay almost nothing. 

I'm trying to have a serious discussion with you but I think you are letting ideoology get in the way ;)
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 2:41 pm

The problem with plastic waste is not only the cost of disposing it on the landfills, but that a lot of it never ends up in a landfill but is discarded randomly and finds its way to the rivers, forests and other areas where it poses a hazard to wildlife.
 
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Cuchulainn
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 2:49 pm

ISayMoo wrote:
The problem with plastic waste is not only the cost of disposing it on the landfills, but that a lot of it never ends up in a landfill but is discarded randomly and finds its way to the rivers, forests and other areas where it poses a hazard to wildlife.

95% of drinking water in USA is contaminated with microplastics.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dy-reveals

The average number of fibres found in each 500ml sample ranged from 4.8 in the US to 1.9 in Europe.
 
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ISayMoo
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Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 3:09 pm

Cuchulainn wrote:
95% of drinking water in USA is contaminated with microplastics.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... dy-reveals

The average number of fibres found in each 500ml sample ranged from 4.8 in the US to 1.9 in Europe.

Americans often put corporate profits over clean environment, don't they?
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Re: environmental wackos vs the plastic bag

January 8th, 2018, 3:43 pm

ISayMoo wrote:
The problem with plastic waste is not only the cost of disposing it on the landfills, but that a lot of it never ends up in a landfill but is discarded randomly and finds its way to the rivers, forests and other areas where it poses a hazard to wildlife.
I don't know what it's like in the EU, but the US, very very few cups end up as litter. If one compares daily per capita cup consumption, the number of humans one sees per sq km, the number of discarded cups one sees per sq km, and the presumptive long half-life of a discarded cup, it implies the percentage of cups that threaten wildlife must be extremely low (<<1%).

If one is actually concerned for wildlife, outlaw domestic cats first.
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