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trackstar
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March 12th, 2010, 11:31 pm

I have to say, to the extent that you can tell the religious or cultural background on a poster based on their name or avatar, I have found the possible Muslims on this Forum to be intelligent and thoughtful people. They put up with a lot of garbage quite gracefully too.To the most recent poster, I have read the Qu'ran, and I do not have time to read the Terrors of Islam. I am open-minded, but why waste an evening reading something when you already know the arguments. It is not great literature and it is not the foundation of one of the world's major religions.I oppose bashing groups and individuals based on race, religion, creed, or sexual orientation.This is not going to be a popular position, I know, so I am ready.En Garde!
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trackstar
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March 12th, 2010, 11:59 pm

This is worth reading: The Places in Between - Rory Stewart on Amazon"In January 2002 Rory Stewart walked across Afghanistan -- surviving by his wits, his knowledge of Persian dialects and Muslim customs, and the kindness of strangers. Along the way Stewart met heroes and rogues, tribal elders and teenage soldiers, Taliban commanders and foreign-aid workers. He was also adopted by an unexpected companion -- a retired fighting mastiff he named Babur in honor of Afghanistan's first Mughal emperor, in whose footsteps the pair was following."". . . a striding, glorious book . . . a flat-out masterpiece ." --The New York Times Book Review
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farmer
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March 13th, 2010, 2:03 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarI oppose bashing groups and individuals based on race, religion, creed, or sexual orientation.Never mind bashing, how about stoning or boiling?I wonder if I dated you, if I could trick you to flying to some nice country where I could arrange to have you stoned for your behavior.That sounds like a cool plan.
 
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trackstar
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March 13th, 2010, 2:07 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarI oppose bashing groups and individuals based on race, religion, creed, or sexual orientation.Never mind bashing, how about stoning or boiling?I wonder if I dated you, if I could trick you to flying to some nice country where I could arrange to have you stoned for your behavior.That sounds like a cool plan.Sorry, but in spite of all the good times we have had on the Forum, you are on the No Fly List. Permanently.
 
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farmer
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March 13th, 2010, 2:18 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstaryou are on the No Fly List. Permanently.What is that, some kind of bashing? Discrimination? Marginalization? Just because I kinda dig stoning a little? Just for girls who are promiscuous?
 
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trackstar
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March 13th, 2010, 2:37 am

No, it is for your own protection. You have a tendency to be verbally abusive, which is quite a lot of fun at this distance.But I am a fairly physical person, so if we were in the same room and you got started, I would almost certainly throw you down a flight of stairs.Awhile later, I might feel bad about it and maybe I would bundle you up in blanket and bring you to the hospital.But not necessarily. In any case, that would get old rather quickly.Bottom line is, you need to stay away from horse women, whether they are promiscuous, or kissed only by the wind.
 
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trackstar
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March 13th, 2010, 3:00 am

PS: For people who may not understand how verbal abuse serves as entertainment, just think of how it is to come to a Quantitative Finance Forum, read the posts in Technical, and Trading, and Software and then wander down to the Off Topic where a purple muppet is ranting about health care economics and will scream obscenities at you, when you say hello. Wilmott.com epitomizes the fact that Life really is Absurd and I enjoy it very much.
 
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dunrewpp
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March 13th, 2010, 4:00 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarI have to say, to the extent that you can tell the religious or cultural background on a poster based on their name or avatar, I have found the possible Muslims on this Forum to be intelligent and thoughtful people. They put up with a lot of garbage quite gracefully too.To the most recent poster, I have read the Qu'ran, and I do not have time to read the Terrors of Islam. I am open-minded, but why waste an evening reading something when you already know the arguments. It is not great literature and it is not the foundation of one of the world's major religions.I oppose bashing groups and individuals based on race, religion, creed, or sexual orientation.This is not going to be a popular position, I know, so I am ready.First off, your position is not only unpopular, but, worse, it is wrong.Let stand up among us one of those "possible Muslims on this Forum to be intelligent and thoughtful people". The issue is whether they are open-minded and grounded in observable and publicly accessible reality. I have lived a lifetime among muslims. I KNOW them! I have found them steeped in an arrested world of suffocating religiosity and incurable arrogance.How can I tell "the religious or cultural background on a poster based on their name or avatar"? I can simply because I know this Owais dude. It's not the first time he has posted cretenist comments. But I do remember that some time ago he praised you as one of his admirees.trackstar - Is it really true that "you already know the arguments" in THE TERRORS OF ISLAM? If so, then that's quite impressive. But you were not the one who was asked to read it. It was Owais. Did he? Will he ever? By the way, you seem to give Owais too much credit. Trust me, he does not deserve it. Do not waste your kindness.I imagined you much wiser than upholding Quran because, as you indicated, it is "the foundation of one of the world's major religions". I am baffled: What's your point? The greater the illogic, the greater the falsehood, the greater the stupidity of a creed measured by any metric, therefore, the greater its worth, its truth, its ability to command respect? You baffle me.
 
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trackstar
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March 13th, 2010, 4:24 am

The term "admiree" is incorrect. I respect Owais, as I respect anyone else here. I actually admire very few people; maybe some of the older members with superior QF skills. And just because I might admire someone's acumen with financial maths does not mean that I would admire them without reservation. You have to know someone personally for quite a long time to say that, in my book.It is a personal question, but it would be interesting to know what region(s) you have lived in that you know so many Muslims. Your adaptation or resistance to the culture is also a product of your own upbringing and path in life. So as a small example, if I were travelling in the Muslim world, naturally, I would veil. As a tolerant person and mindful of cultural relativism, I would not be annoyed about it. Unfortunately, I would not be able to take a journey like Rory Stewart did, but then again, I would not attempt a long walk across certain parts of the US or Europe alone either.Another question: have you learned any Arabic? Do you hang out with other expats only or have you developed some friendships with local people?I do realize that this can be dangerous in some situations. So whether you are American, British, or other Western nationality, it's understandable if you have had to live in a compound of sorts. That also would shed some light on your position on Islam.
Last edited by trackstar on March 12th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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March 13th, 2010, 4:56 am

So, I got curious and having a little spare time, I decided to read all 41 of dunrewpp's posts. (Not saying that as belittlement, I'm just saying that it was manageable).This was interesting from the Trolls thread: (Phew what a day that was! )Originally posted bydunrewpp"I'd like to chime in here.I find Fermion to be one of the most intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful contributors, along with a few others, like Traden4Alpha. I find trackstar to be widely entertaining with an impressive breadth of interests as he seems to have an inexhaustible range of topics to opine about. I think trackstar, who enjoys pleasantries between posters, is not as deep a thinker as Fermion. But then trackstar feels at home doing what he does. The intention to force one's will and vision on people, whatever that means, does not apply to Fermion. The force and legitimacy of his arguments will never scratch the thick mental walls of people like ppauper, brontosaurus, Hamilton, etc. It is a shame that Traden4Alpha and Fermion do not try hard enough to together delineate and uphold the areas on which they agree. They quickly descend into name-calling and make the already murky waters even murkier. It will help a lot if Fermion and Traden4Alpha agree in advance on a set of rules of exchange before they get into the thick of it. How about that guys? People like ppauper, brontosaurus, Hamilton pretend to be thoughtful and seem to be believing in and pleased with the result of their pretensions. Nothing that disproves their beliefs can penetrate their thick skulls. Ensconced within an armor of comforting beliefs they live life happily. Fermion is a puzzle. Why does he think he can convince people -- like brontosaurus, Hamilton, etc. -- to see the illogic of their beliefs? As I said, these people are pretenders who take their pretensions seriously -- they believe in them. I cannot say I agree fully with everything Fermion says on these pages, but then he cannot be dismissed easily: he is a force to be reckoned with." End Quote***So that's fine, he is an admirer of Fermion. But he is also very critical of brontosaurus, rather rude about it too. Checking Middle East thread names... ah yes, Iran's New PresidentThat was a hot one - 429 posts!***Might also check the longish Happy Hannukah! thread...QuoteOriginally posted by: dunrewppTo Marsden,I am by nature a callous person, almost devoid of sympathy toward my fellow humans. But, I have developed this strong urge to commiserate with you (and many others) when I see you struggle so hard, and so decently and sensibly, in dealing with brontosaurus (and his ilk), and when in return he responds trash and nonsense.brontosaurus is not interested in a sensible exchange of differing views; he is not interested in finding the truth about Israel, Judaism, etc. He already has all the truth he needs. He is now in DEFENSE mode of protecting his beloved Israel and Judaism. All else be damned!Average poster: I think 1+1=2.bronto: Well, since 2 hurts Israel and is against the honor of Judaism, then 1+1 is NOT equal to 2.Average poster: But, it is true that 1+1=2, regardless of how you feel about this fact.bronto: You are a jew-hater and an asshole for saying that, Average poster.***So what's really interesting is that this characteristic of being callous to others comes though in his other posts as well. I read them oldest to newest and I was getting that feeling, even before the self description came up.In addition, I am thinking that a Western assumption was wrong. And the last thing that I am going to do at 1 am Eastern Standard Time is get into an argument about Muslims with an Israeli. Maybe Errrb can give you some quality advice.Good luck at the Maple Branch Library!
Last edited by trackstar on March 12th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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dunrewpp
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March 13th, 2010, 8:43 am

Remarkable - trackstar - Bravo!You are the epitome of masterful online elicitation!I have observed how deftly your responses are engineered to elicit more and deeper personal information from your interlocutors, including myself. You have developed enough insight and profundity to write a whole book on the practice. You can probably write an anthropological or sociological book on online human behavior. Congratulations! Can't wait for the first edition.QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarSo, I got curious and having a little spare time, I decided to read all 41 of dunrewpp's posts. (Not saying that as belittlement, I'm just saying that it was manageable).This was interesting from the Trolls thread: (Phew what a day that was! )dunrewpp:"I'd like to chime in here.I find Fermion to be one of the most intelligent, knowledgeable, thoughtful contributors, along with a few others, like Traden4Alpha. I find trackstar to be widely entertaining with an impressive breadth of interests as he seems to have an inexhaustible range of topics to opine about. I think trackstar, who enjoys pleasantries between posters, is not as deep a thinker as Fermion. But then trackstar feels at home doing what he does. The intention to force one's will and vision on people, whatever that means, does not apply to Fermion. The force and legitimacy of his arguments will never scratch the thick mental walls of people like ppauper, brontosaurus, Hamilton, etc. It is a shame that Traden4Alpha and Fermion do not try hard enough to together delineate and uphold the areas on which they agree. They quickly descend into name-calling and make the already murky waters even murkier. It will help a lot if Fermion and Traden4Alpha agree in advance on a set of rules of exchange before they get into the thick of it. How about that guys? People like ppauper, brontosaurus, Hamilton pretend to be thoughtful and seem to be believing in and pleased with the result of their pretensions. Nothing that disproves their beliefs can penetrate their thick skulls. Ensconced within an armor of comforting beliefs they live life happily. Fermion is a puzzle. Why does he think he can convince people -- like brontosaurus, Hamilton, etc. -- to see the illogic of their beliefs? As I said, these people are pretenders who take their pretensions seriously -- they believe in ithem. I cannot say I agree fully with everything Fermion says on these pages, but then he cannot be dismissed easily: he is a force to be reckoned with." ***So that's fine, he is an admirer of Fermion. But he is also very critical of brontosaurus, rather rude about it too. Checking Middle East thread names... ah yes, Iran's New PresidentThat was a hot one - 429 posts!***Might also check the longish Happy Hannukah! thread...QuoteOriginally posted by: dunrewppTo Marsden,I am by nature a callous person, almost devoid of sympathy toward my fellow humans. But, I have developed this strong urge to commiserate with you (and many others) when I see you struggle so hard, and so decently and sensibly, in dealing with brontosaurus (and his ilk), and when in return he responds trash and nonsense.brontosaurus is not interested in a sensible exchange of differing views; he is not interested in finding the truth about Israel, Judaism, etc. He already has all the truth he needs. He is now in DEFENSE mode of protecting his beloved Israel and Judaism. All else be damned!Average poster: I think 1+1=2.bronto: Well, since 2 hurts Israel and is against the honor of Judaism, then 1+1 is NOT equal to 2.Average poster: But, it is true that 1+1=2, regardless of how you feel about this fact.bronto: You are a jew-hater and an asshole for saying that, Average poster.***So what's really interesting is that this characteristic of being callous to others comes though in his other posts as well. I read them oldest to newest and I was getting that feeling, even before the self description came up.In addition, I am thinking that a Western assumption was wrong. And the last thing that I am going to do at 1 am Eastern Standard Time is get into an argument about Muslims with an Israeli. Maybe Errrb can give you some quality advice.Good luck at the Maple Branch Library!
Last edited by dunrewpp on March 12th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trackstar
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March 13th, 2010, 10:05 am

LOL. dunrewpp may be dissimulating; he is very good at Brainteasers. You will note that I did not actually elicit a personal response from him here; I did thorough research and selected relevant passages from his prior posts. This one was good as well; actually it is one if his finer moments:From: Cognition and Consciousness - A Lexicon"Quote--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by: trackstarA collection of axioms:Wolfram Math WorldAxiomAn axiom is a proposition regarded as self-evidently true without proof. The word "axiom" is a slightly archaic synonym for postulate. Compare conjecture or hypothesis, both of which connote apparently true but not self-evident statements. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------(dunrewpp)It is unfortunate that the word "true" is used in the definition of "axiom" (or "postulate") as mathematics has 'nothing' to do with truth. The game of chess is like axiomatic math. Once the rules are set up, then there are consequences functionally dependent on and derived from those rules. Change any of the rules, then you get a different game. The game of basketball is also a rule-based process. Change a simple element in it, then you get pandemonium. Imagine if in basketball there were allowed to be two (or more) balls in the court at any point in time. How would you draw up your strategies now? Or if in chess each player would perform two moves on each turn. By allowing these changes, the two games would never be what we've come to know of them.In math same thing happens. This is most evident in the development of Geometry, where from its simpler Euclidean origins it has transmuted into Non-Euclidean enterprise.Instead of truth, it is validity in math the concerns us. Does "q" follow from "p"? That is the question: Does it follow or does it not follow?"***If you put on black and white glasses and look at all of the people on this site, you will find that we are nearly all seekers - some need more maths, some need more programming, some need more experience in finance ("street smarts"), and some need more empathy. A number of people are highly skilled at several of these; just a handful of people excel at all of them.It is like a sweeping 4-dimensional chess game. And since Paul is the architect of this game, I hope that *he* will write another book. Tri-dimensional ChessOne more dimension to go...
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ppauper
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March 13th, 2010, 10:12 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperQuoteOriginally posted by: FermionThey are no worse than any other religion -- they just get worse publicity in the west. "Faith" = dogma. Dissension = apostasy.once again, Fermion asserts that "every so-called lifestyle alternative is morally equivalent".No, just the religious nature of religion.QuoteNo Fermion, Islam is worse than other religions.Can you imagine a library is say Saudi inviting you to come down and celebrate Judaism or Christianity ? They search your luggage for bibles at customs, and even ban Valentine's Day because Valentine was a Christian saint !You mention "apostasy". How many religions other than islam try to kill you if you leave ?Selectivity and mis-representation will get you nowhere. When it comes to killing dissenters, Muslims have nothing on Christians and Judaists. Neither does their "holy" book.I have neither selected nor misrepresented.You, Fermion, raised apostasy, so you, Fermion, selected it, not I.And I have merely stated islam's position on apostasy.I asked How many religions other than islam try to kill you if you leave ?I'm unaware of any, and since you declined to answer, it seems you are unaware of any.From wiki:QuotePunishment for apostasyExecutionIn Islamic law (sharia), the consensus view is that a male apostate must be put to death unless he suffers from a mental disorder or converted under duress, for example, due to an imminent danger of being killed. A female apostate must be either executed, according to Shafi'i, Maliki, and Hanbali schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), or imprisoned until she reverts to Islam as advocated by the Sunni Hanafi school and by Shi'a scholars.It is clear from this that Islamic law calls for male apostates to be killed.QuotePreferred form of executionMost Islamic scholars agree that the appropriate punishment for apostasy is beheading. The Mamluk Sultan Baybars II also practiced torture of apostates. A case is recorded when a woman who had apostatised was led through the streets of Cairo dragged on her bottom, then strangled in a boat in the middle of the Nile and thrown into the river. In modern times, followers of the Ahmadiyya sect in Afghanistan were stoned to death.So beheading is preferred, but stoning is also acceptable, as is dragging followed by strangulation.Could you remind me where in the New Testament Jesus tells his followers to kill non-believers ?
Last edited by ppauper on March 12th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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March 13th, 2010, 10:20 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: OwaisRead Whole Quran .. you Will Understand Islamexcellent ideaNow Playing: Quran 9 aya 29 - Fight and kill Jews and Christians
 
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ppauper
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March 13th, 2010, 10:23 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionAnd try asking young Mormon polygamy-raised girls the same questions. They'll probably answer "yes" because that is what they have been told is their holy destiny.mormonism, like islam, was founded by a demon-possessed pedophile. But at least mormons don't kill apostates. And mohammed isn't the only muslim marrying prepubescent girls: if you read the very popular "random french links" thread, you'll find recent (meaning since 2000AD) cases of prepubescent girls being married off against their will to elderly men (one of the grooms was over 80).
Last edited by ppauper on March 12th, 2010, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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