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Hamilton
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March 13th, 2010, 6:49 pm

QuoteAnd as regards killing non-believers, whether apostates or not, more Muslims (and Judaists) have been killed by Christians for centuries than the other way around. And this slaughter continues into the 21st century, except that the Judaists have switched allies.Really?
 
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Cuchulainn
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March 13th, 2010, 6:58 pm

QuoteReally?Let's go back a bit; the sacking of Constantinople and Siege of Jerusaleum (1099) can kick off the discussion.
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March 13th, 2010, 7:31 pm

In order to have an authentic simulation, should we mail our posts by courier?Postal AddressWe considered this question and the historic implications with spacemonkey a little while ago.
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Hamilton
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March 13th, 2010, 9:55 pm

Let's go back a bit; the sacking of Constantinople and Siege of Jerusaleum (1099) can kick off the discussion. That seems a trifle lame. We've had an assertion regarding the relations amongst 3 monotheistic religions:Judaism;Islam;Christianity;Since Islam didn't exist before roughly 632 A.D., we should begin there. If we want to examine Judaism and Christianityspecifically, we'd need to start when Christianity began.
 
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Fermion
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March 13th, 2010, 10:54 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonQuoteAnd as regards killing non-believers, whether apostates or not, more Muslims (and Judaists) have been killed by Christians for centuries than the other way around. And this slaughter continues into the 21st century, except that the Judaists have switched allies.Really?Yes, really.
 
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Hamilton
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March 13th, 2010, 10:59 pm

QuoteYes, really. That's quite an impressive assertion. You, of course, have impressive historicalreferences so that ballot scrutineers on Wilmott can quantitatively tabulate the results?H
 
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Fermion
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March 14th, 2010, 12:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonQuoteYes, really. That's quite an impressive assertion. You, of course, have impressive historicalreferences so that ballot scrutineers on Wilmott can quantitatively tabulate the results?HI would only be interested in providing evidence to those who would think it mattered.
 
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farmer
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March 14th, 2010, 12:15 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: HamiltonIf we want to examine Judaism and Christianity specifically, we'd need to start when Christianity began.That would be at Creation, or before Creation if such a thing has a meaning. God created this world, but perhaps He didn't have to. So really, Christianity, with her God as the actor, created all life and all that is good.Had people embraced Jesus Christ at Creation? No, but they were still His sheep. And had it been His plan, they could have. I guess He could have made the first man and woman murdering Jesus freaks, but He did not. That is where the track record begins.
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Hamilton
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March 14th, 2010, 3:25 am

I would only be interested in providing evidence to those who would think it mattered. There are 76,000+ subscribers to Wilmott.com. Whom would you suggest?
 
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ppauper
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March 14th, 2010, 12:00 pm

starting with the sacking of rome by islamists in 846AD would be as good a place to start as any.For those who've been to Rome, QuoteTo prevent a second such incident, in 852 Pope Leo IV commissioned the construction of another wall (Leonine Wall) around an area on the opposite side of the Tiber from the seven hills of Rome. This enclosure has since become known as the Leonine City
 
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Cuchulainn
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March 14th, 2010, 12:31 pm

Last day of Ash calendar month, 432 AD would be good enough for me.
 
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ppauper
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March 14th, 2010, 2:41 pm

Fall of Constantinople 1453ADQuoteAfter the doors were breached, the troops separated the congregation according to what price they might bring on the slave markets. Mehmed II allowed his troops to plunder the city for three days, during which multitudes of civilians were massacred and enslaved. There was raping and pillaging according to the English historian John Julius Norwich. Soldiers fought over the possession of some of the spoils of war. According to the Venetian surgeon Nicolo Barbaro "all through the day the Turks made a great slaughter of Christians through the city".
 
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gardener3
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March 14th, 2010, 5:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: FermionQuoteOriginally posted by: gardener3So how is logical to make judgements on groups of people as diverse as those living from Albania to China based on a couple people you met? Perhaps you could argue that they all share common belief in a book. But you haven't read the book. Incurable arrogance?Well, you don't have to read a book to know that Islam is a religion. That's quite enough for me to make a judgment about its true believers being superstitious, dogmatic and blinkered agents of oppression -- however nice they may be in other ways.Say we define religion as belief in an imaginary deity plus a lifestyle/moral code. Since you are ignoring the latter, then any belief in imaginary beings like Santa Claus is 'sufficient to be dogmatic and blinkered agents of oppression'.
 
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Hamilton
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March 14th, 2010, 6:19 pm

then any belief in imaginary beings like Santa Claus is 'sufficient to be dogmatic and blinkered agents of oppression'. A belief in Platonic solids can also lead to blinkered oppression.
 
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Hamilton
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March 14th, 2010, 6:21 pm

Quotequite enough for me to make a judgment about its true believers being superstitious, dogmatic and blinkered agents of oppression Well, its a good thing you're not falling prey to being superstitious, dogmatic, blinkered or oppressive in your view of religionists. And, may I also add,its great that you don't take yourself very seriously. It makes you a lot of fun to be around at parties.
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