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Traden4Alpha
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 5:29 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: frenchXPlanck scales are fundamental in my view . Energy is discretized by quantuum mechanics so why not space and time? I'm not an expert either (too complicated for me too ), but discretized space seems to make it impossible to move in a straight line or to move in ways that don't involve discretized angles.
Last edited by Traden4Alpha on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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frenchX
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 5:36 pm

Nice point but maybe it's possible to apply to this kind of topological problem a kind of dynamical conformal transformation. Let me explain for a simple material particle, since the energy is very high by nonlinear coupling with virtual particles in the space (a kind of hidden aether) and our material particle will interact together. It could be possible that the underlying superstring lattice could be a kind of virtual flow like a liquid flowing around your material point and so you will have a conformal map . A moving particle in the space is like a static particle with a topological flow around it.
 
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Collector
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 6:05 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerIf we spin someone around an axis through the center of his skull, he might live long enough to understand women, while the rest of his body is still young enough to do something with the knowledge.This one can possibly achieve if one at early age starts with gravity inversion table, well it do not inverse gravity but your body, basically hanging upside down, you get lots and lots of blood in your skull (possibly gives faster development of your brain?), your face turn red, and this will also possibly counter effect the gravity sagging on your lower body that now is your upper body relative to gravitation pull from earth.I was actually hanging in a inversion table trading on my powerbook for a documentary about trading, the producer loved this (and a few other stunts) so I got a major role in the film, however the major TV channel did not like it, and canceled it, possibly also the conservative sponsors though reality was too wild (They like it Gaussian). After working on the film for one year the producer gave it up, he wanted it on a major TV channel or nothing at all...I have a DVD copy somewhere. Head stand in yoga is supposed to be very health beneficial, same principle...The world looks quite different when you stand on your head or hanging from your feet!
Last edited by Collector on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trackstar
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 6:18 pm

Different angle on physical side:A person could not do it (max is ~ 17G otherwise serious danger of suffocation)*, but maybe a machine could trade from a centrifuge.If the centrifuge was spinning faster than Earth's rotation, could you front run the market? Forget renting expensive office space next to the Exchange, pecking up seeds of latency. You could be anywhere on Earth with your new trading system!**Footnote on G Force maximums on human subjects:"The human body is considerably more able to survive g-forces that are perpendicular to the spine. In general when the g-force pushes the body forwards (colloquially known as 'eyeballs in') a much higher tolerance is shown than when g-force is pushing the body backwards ('eyeballs out') since blood vessels in the retina appear more sensitive to that direction.Early experiments showed that untrained humans were able to tolerate 17 g eyeballs-in (compared to 12 g eyeballs-out) for several minutes without loss of consciousness or apparent long-term harm."* According to some sources, though humans have withstood much higher G-forces for short periods of time. See Collector's post below (or above,.. on Tue Feb 01, 11 02:55 PM
Last edited by trackstar on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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frenchX
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 6:24 pm

Your trading strategy wouldn't work cause your system is already embedded in the Earth frame and also because the two axxis of rotation are not the same And how do you make the interface between the two frames ?
 
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trackstar
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 6:26 pm

good points. so you would have to do this from a starship or the Moon.You could preserve the axis of rotation though. Super high speed Wireless connection, (10G?) with embedded backwardation (not in sense of opposite of contango, but in sense of auto-adjustment to local time, so SEC would not catch on).**Well good for a laugh. Should perhaps get back to the original subject (or sign off and have something to eat.).
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Collector
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 6:55 pm

"John Stapp was subjected to 15 g for 0.6 second and a peak of 22 g during a 19 March 1954 rocket sled test. He would eventually survive a peak of more than 46 g, with more than 25 g for 1.1 sec"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force And today many humans have titanium hip-raplacements etc, who know what g-forces we can withstand in future when more and more body parts are replaced with NiTi and other good stuff.
Last edited by Collector on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 7:02 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Collector"John Stapp was subjected to 15 g for 0.6 second and a peak of 22 g during a 19 March 1954 rocket sled test. He would eventually survive a peak of more than 46 g, with more than 25 g for 1.1 sec"This is why people die while skiing. Even WITH a helmet, if one goes faster than 15 mph and hits an immovable object, one's brain experiences more than 45-90G. "One cerebral milkshake coming up!"
 
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trackstar
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 7:04 pm

Still, I stand corrected and will make the appropriate note on my original post.This is important information!
Last edited by trackstar on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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trackstar
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Time dilation

February 1st, 2011, 8:16 pm

So, while billions and billions of snow particles were being moved (by me) in space, over a fair amount of time, I was thinking about Doubly Special Relativity. The link that FrenchX gave has a pretty nice write up, with lots of follow on links to the key concepts.***Here is an extract from the DSR Wiki link:"A different model, inspired by that of Amelino-Camelia, was proposed later by João Magueijo and Lee Smolin. It was quickly realized that there are indeed infinitely many deformations of special relativity that allow to achieve an invariance of the Planck energy, either as a maximum energy, as a maximal momentum, or both. It has been shown that theories are related to loop quantum gravity in 2+1 dimensions (two space, one time), and it has been conjectured that a relation also exists in 3+1 dimensions.The motivation to these proposals is mainly theoretical, based on the following observation: The Planck energy is expected to play a fundamental role in a theory of quantum gravity, setting the scale at which quantum gravity effects cannot be neglected and new phenomena might become important. If Special Relativity is to hold up exactly to this scale, different observers would observe quantum gravity effects at different scales, due to the Lorentz-FitzGerald contraction, in contradiction to the principle that all inertial observers should be able to describe phenomena by the same physical laws. This motivation has been criticized on the grounds that the result of a Lorentz-transformation does not itself constitute an observable.There is still no experimental evidence of any departure from special relativity, but rather this is highly constrained. It has been suggested that the observation of high-energy cosmic rays that appeared to violate the Greisen-Zatsepin-Kuzmin limit: the so-called Oh-My-God particles were an indication of the failure of special relativity at this energy scale. After experimental evidence shifted towards confirming the GZK limit where it is expected from the standard theory, proponents of DSR dropped the original prediction and now claim that such a modification of the GZK limit is *not* to be expected in DSR. The remaining prediction is now time delays in the arrival time of highly energetic photons from gamma ray bursts.The model suffers from several inconsistencies in formulation have yet to be resolved. Most notably it is difficult to recover the standard transformation behavior for macroscopic bodies, known as the soccer-ball-problem. The other conceptual difficulty is that DSR is a priori formulated in momentum space. There is yet no consistent formulation of the model in position space." and this is a good follow-on: Doubly-Special Relativity: Facts, Myths and Some Key Open IssuesGiovanni Amelino-Camelia Dipartimento di Fisica, Università di Roma ?La Sapienza? and Sez. Roma1 INFN, P.le A. Moro 2, 00185 Roma, Italy Received: 26 January 2010 / Accepted: 3 March 2010 / Published: 8 March 2010in Symmetry 2010, 2(1), 230-271; doi:10.3390/sym2010230
Last edited by trackstar on January 31st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Richyiee
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Time dilation

February 2nd, 2011, 2:38 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: thedoc there IS such a thing as absolute acceleration (i.e. I CAN tell whether it's you or me who is accelerating).how dyou tell ?
 
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thedoc
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Time dilation

February 2nd, 2011, 7:41 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: RichyieeQuoteOriginally posted by: thedoc there IS such a thing as absolute acceleration (i.e. I CAN tell whether it's you or me who is accelerating).how dyou tell ?InertiaIn flat space-time, all matter experiences resistance to motion. The person who is actively accelerating will experience this resistance, and interpret it as a force pulling them against their direction of acceleration.In more simple terms. If you and I each hold a full glass of water, then the one who spills it is the one who is accelerating!All this changes in General Relativity of courese, but the twin 'paradox', is explicitly a Special Relativity problem.
Last edited by thedoc on February 1st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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rmax
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Time dilation

February 2nd, 2011, 7:56 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaAcceleration due to gravity or due to induced forces (e.g., elevator or rocket) does have one distinct difference. A person at the North pole will feel a constant 1-G acceleration in one direction whilst a person at the South pole will feel 1-G acceleration in the opposite direction but neither object will experience the increasing time dilation effects that a 1-G rocket would.To clarify - are you suggesting that the time dilation increase will be down to Special Relativity component of the rocket. I would expect a uniform time dilation in terms of acceleration due to the energy tensor (I think).I'm just looking for the differences between the two types of acceleration.Lets say three people start together in a non-accelerating spaceship and go their separate ways whilst each carrying an accelerometer, a clock, and a radio for communicating about time dilation. The spaceship, with observer 1, remains in an nonaccelerating state. After a brief period of maneuvers, Observer 2 measures a constant very long-term 1-g acceleration in a particular direction. After a brief period of maneuvers, Observer 3 also measures a constant very long-term 1-g acceleration in the exact same direction as observer 2's acceleration.What are the time-dilation effects between the three observers?An acceleration-based model would say that Observers 2 & 3 experience zero relative time dilation WRT each other and the same ever-increasing time dilation WRT observer 1.But if Observer 2 lands on the North Pole whilst Observer 3 accelerates toward the North Star, then we see that Observers 1 & 2 experience zero relative time dilation WRT each other and Observer 3 sees ever-increasing time dilation WRT observers 1 and 2.It seems that g and a are different.But only because of the increase in distance? Had a late night last night so quite possibly brain cells are firing even less then they do normally.
 
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rmax
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Time dilation

February 2nd, 2011, 7:58 am

Quantum Loop gravity (as I have mentioned here before) sounds like a much better prospect than the various String theories being proposed. The fact that string theory assumes a background frame of reference seems to be a fundimental inconsistency when we know there is none.In terms of the rotating space time - I have yet to work out what it is roating with respect to as everything is relative. I would guess a non rotating frame?
 
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thedoc
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Time dilation

February 2nd, 2011, 10:57 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuantum Loop gravity (as I have mentioned here before) sounds like a much better prospect than the various String theories being proposed. The fact that string theory assumes a background frame of reference seems to be a fundimental inconsistency when we know there is none.agreed
Last edited by thedoc on February 1st, 2011, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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