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Powerpuff
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 8:44 pm

Excessive deficit procedure:"If the Council decides that a Member State is in a situation of excessive deficit, the excessive deficit procedure provides for the necessary steps to be taken. These could ultimately lead to imposing sanctions on the country concerned."QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaMonetary union without political union only works in the short-term and in good economic conditions. Without adequate political mechanisms to maintain economic, fiscal, and regulatory convergence, the partially unified states will diverge until the union shatters.Are you suggesting some sort of European Federation? Transcending time, space & politics?
Last edited by Powerpuff on July 20th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 9:13 pm

They can have Paris. That's better than:
 
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Traden4Alpha
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 9:17 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarSo reading through all of this, in summary there is a clear power under the TEU to make reports, hold meetings, compile statistical data, make public announcements, and issue warnings to errant Members States.They wouldn't dare! I'm quaking in my boots!
 
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GiusCo
Posts: 124
Joined: March 26th, 2010, 10:00 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 9:26 pm

As an Italian I was and still I am a strong euro-enthusiast: this crisis is a way to accelerate the political integration and the agreement pro Greece reached a couple of hours ago is a nice step forward... next coming are the eurobondsAs for the U.S., default would be the nail in the coffin of their empire, not the end of the liberal world. China would buy out the West for cheap and colonize the rest without firing a single bullet. I'm confident Chinese are sly enough not to destroy what the West created... they'll simply use it for their goals.
 
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Powerpuff
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 9:30 pm

***
Last edited by Powerpuff on July 22nd, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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quantmeh
Posts: 5974
Joined: April 6th, 2007, 1:39 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 21st, 2011, 9:39 pm

we won't have gyro's anymore
 
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exCBOE
Posts: 80
Joined: May 19th, 2010, 9:48 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 1:52 am

By 2015, China will be jumping the shark fin soup. Nobody with any sense would choose to live in that kind of political hellhole. Remember Japan in the 80s and THAT was a decent political environment. At least the Japanese produced Nikons and Toyotas to go with their plastic statues of liberty and wear-once clothing.Frackin' shale da whole day through...doodah, doodah
 
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quantmeh
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Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 2:02 am

china's good at making iPhones
 
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ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 2:49 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehchina's good at making iPhonessee the China threadQuoteOriginally posted by: ppauperEntire Apple stores being faked in China
 
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rmax
Posts: 6080
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:31 am

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 7:19 am

At the time of Greek entry to the Euro is was well reported by Euro dissenters that the "entry criteria" had been fudged to let them in. The same keeps happening with a whole load of different Euro entries. The classic examples on other areas of the differences on limits on baby food between Denmark and the rest of Europe and the fact that French countries blockaded British produce from being sold...So the upshot of all of this is two fold: 1. you cannot have an economic union without some form of STRONG political union (someone on this forum quoted the California debt as a good example). 2. There were politics driving the expansion and path of the Eurozone, and hence principles of entry were waived.I was a Eurosceptic, and with typical timing, I changed my mind about 2 years ago: the reason being that there are some huge powerhouse economies that UK, Germany, France etc cannot combat on ourselves. In terms of work ethic there is a HUGE difference between UK and Germany IMHO. UK has a large populace of people who are expecting something fro the state, France has less average hours worked that the UK, but a slightly larger GDP.I fancy a nice dinner so let me think about the problems posed by trackstar.
 
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trackstar
Posts: 26820
Joined: August 28th, 2008, 1:53 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 8:11 am

Haha. I get the sense that he is ordering the Pétrus already. Better get started, kids, if it's going to be a contest at all!
 
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Traden4Alpha
Posts: 23951
Joined: September 20th, 2002, 8:30 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 9:24 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehchina's good at making iPhonesActually, China is good at assembling iPhones. Most of the phone is made elsewhere.
 
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CrashedMint
Topic Author
Posts: 2591
Joined: January 25th, 2008, 9:12 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 9:29 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarYou can also look at the Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure, which is very short - only four Article spanning barely two pages. (lol).Provides for reporting planned and actual deficits to the European Commission and notes that "The statistical data to be used for the application of this Protocol shall be provided by the Commission."So reading through all of this, in summary there is a clear power under the TEU to make reports, hold meetings, compile statistical data, make public announcements, and issue warnings to errant Members States.There is no power specified or granted to throw the buggers out.it was never an issue at the time they made the treaty. it was a political decision that they wanted as many countries as possible and for symbolical reasons greece ("birthplace of europe" etc.). i think they were madly in love and forgot the prenup. stupid.
 
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GiusCo
Posts: 124
Joined: March 26th, 2010, 10:00 pm

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 10:21 am

I think we not-young-anymore and middle-aged folks here remember well why Europe was built in the first instance: to avoid a third consecutive war in the Continent. And the goal was reached through treacherous waters in a polarized world (the Cold War... the Iron Curtain).That said, the process went fast, probably too fast in the 90s, with the currency union made before a stronger political union. Then followed globalization, plus the shift in the economic power towards the BRICs.The less traumatic solution may be now a two tier Union, but allowing one single default would put all the process at risk because love (yes, love) would actually be lost. This seems not wise to me, neither in the short nor in the middle term, as per the figures about 2040 prospective GDP reported by another user.
 
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zerdna
Posts: 3856
Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

Actual consequences of a U.S. / Greece bankruptcies?

July 22nd, 2011, 11:14 am

q]Originally posted by: GiusCoI think we not-young-anymore and middle-aged folks here remember well why Europe was built in the first instance: to avoid a third consecutive war in the Continent. And the goal was reached through treacherous waters in a polarized world (the Cold War... the Iron Curtain).Berlin Wall fell in 1989, Soviet Union disappeared in 1991, Maastrich treaty, the first Union document, came around in 1993. I'd say if they were afraid so much of the cold war and iron curtain, they should have acted before cold war ended and iron curtain fell.
Last edited by zerdna on July 21st, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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