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frenchX
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 12:14 pm

That's the goal of a terrorist. Create fear. When you see the increase of security and of the media flow, government just play the gameof terrorist by encoraging them.
 
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Errrb
Posts: 1398
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 12:50 pm

There is a huge difference between living in fear and having sane politicians possessing moral clarity and competent security services. Norway has neither. It's a failed country, even if it does not realize this yet. I say let mr. Brevik walk free. What the maximal penalty he can get? 20 years? His popularity will increase while he is writing new book in jail. Seriously don't let him scare you, release the dude.
 
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Powerpuff
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Joined: March 7th, 2011, 6:19 am

norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 1:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbThere is a huge difference between living in fear and having sane politicians possessing moral clarity and competent security services. Norway has neither. It's a failed country, even if it does not realize this yet. I say let mr. Brevik walk free. What the maximal penalty he can get? 20 years? His popularity will increase while he is writing new book in jail. Seriously don't let him scare you, release the dude.First, get your facts straight. It is possible to sentence ABB to something called custody, which for all practical purposes means lifetime in jail. The Norwegian judicial system can use this remedy if a person is considered dangerous to society. It would be somewhat *surprising* if he got a regular jail sentence.And what do you mean by writing another book? You can hardly say he wrote the first! I have read his so-called manifesto, and it is nothing but a giant copy/paste compilation. He refers to a few books he claims to have read (but seemingly not understood much of) and he tries to pass off a few paragraphs as his own work. But I cannot see that he has anything original to say. He also feel the need to brag about wealth and friends in high places - but everything is a lie. Most of it is easy to double-check. So if you would like to read a book written by a compulsive liar sporting a narcissistic personality disorder, I am sure you can find that somewhere. But I find it highly unlikely that it will be written by ABB.I assume you do not live in Norway, since you feel the need to badmouth our politicians *and* praise ABB at the moment? How classy of you. You obviously consider me naive, and perhaps I am - I cannot judge that. But I would much rather be a little naive than an insensitive arse like yourself. And I am certain that I am happier than you, I enjoy life. And I will continue to do so here in Norway, while you brood over your fascist propaganda.**I am pretty sure you and I have nothing more to talk about btw
Last edited by Powerpuff on August 4th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 1:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbThere is a huge difference between living in fear and having sane politicians possessing moral clarity and competent security services. Norway has neither. It's a failed country, even if it does not realize this yet. I say let mr. Brevik walk free. What the maximal penalty he can get? 20 years? His popularity will increase while he is writing new book in jail. Seriously don't let him scare you, release the dude.Terrorists must love you because you are exactly the kind of person that validates their threats. Do you work for bin Laden?Security costs money that could be spent on more productive investments and all those laws designed to prevent terrorism end up impeding a wide array of beneficial economic activities (e.g.. flying on a plane, global trade, immigration of smart/ambitious people, financial transactions, etc.).Norway seems far saner and far-sighted than any other country on this matter. It's the knee-jerk fear-mongers that run the failed states.
 
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Powerpuff
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 1:34 pm

Last edited by Powerpuff on August 4th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Errrb
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 1:51 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Powerpuff You obviously consider me naive, and perhaps I am - I cannot judge that. But I would much rather be a little naive than an insensitive arse like yourself. And I am certain that I am happier than you, I enjoy life. And I will continue to do so here in Norway, while you brood over your fascist propaganda.You remind me the character from "The Time Machine" by H. G. Wells. Yes you are naive, this is not bad by itself unless you will evolve into dumb ass fermion, judging by your "fascist" name calling. Enjoy your rosy glasses until morlocks drag you to their underworld, incompetent norway police is unlikely to help you.
Last edited by Errrb on August 4th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 1:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PowerpuffQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaSecurity costs money that could be spent on more productive investments It's been ages since I did economics. But I think that even though the marginal utility of security measures are positive, it decreases rapidly at some point. Could it even turn negative? That you reach some threshold level and after that added stuff just induce fear? IMO you cannot prepare yourself for everything. Although each increment of security monotonically reduces the chance of terrorist acts, it does does so with decreasing efficiency and increasing indirect costs (i.e., growing obstacles to travel, trade, and normal personal and business activities). At some point one is spending an added $1 billion per additional expected life saved and you never reach zero expected deaths per year from terrorism due to the "cannot prepare yourself for everything" phenomenon.The challenge for people and politicians is in balancing the potential prevention of acute-but-rare events (terrorist acts) against the certain imposition of diffuse-but-pervasive costs (security measures and the frictions they create). It takes a real leader to calm the situation and avoid stoking the very fears that the terrorist sought to invoke.
 
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Errrb
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 2:06 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaAlthough each increment of security monotonically reduces the chance of terrorist acts, it does does so with decreasing efficiency and increasing indirect costs (i.e., growing obstacles to travel, trade, and normal personal and business activities). At some point one is spending an added $1 billion per additional expected life saved and you never reach zero expected deaths per year from terrorism due to the "cannot prepare yourself for everything" phenomenon.The challenge for people and politicians is in balancing the potential prevention of acute-but-rare events (terrorist acts) against the certain imposition of diffuse-but-pervasive costs (security measures and the frictions they create). It takes a real leader to calm the situation and avoid stoking the very fears that the terrorist sought to invoke.Blah, blah, blah. By your logic let's also fire every single policemen. Since police can not prevent every single crime anyway, why bother at all? You should start thinking about taking karate lessons and buying yourself VERY BIG GUN, T4A. You see, street punks first kill geeks who give them long, boring and meaningless speeches as you do.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 2:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbQuoteOriginally posted by: PowerpuffYou obviously consider me naive, and perhaps I am - I cannot judge that. But I would much rather be a little naive than an insensitive arse like yourself. And I am certain that I am happier than you, I enjoy life. And I will continue to do so here in Norway, while you brood over your fascist propaganda.You remind me the character from "The Time Machine" by H. G. Wells. Yes you are naive, this is not bad by itself unless you will evolve into dumb ass fermion, judging by your "fascist" name calling. Enjoy your rosy glasses until morlocks drag you to their underworld, incompetent norway police is unlikely to help you.If a bomb blows up a crowded cafe and no one notices, did it achieve the terrorist's aims?
 
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Traden4Alpha
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 2:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaAlthough each increment of security monotonically reduces the chance of terrorist acts, it does does so with decreasing efficiency and increasing indirect costs (i.e., growing obstacles to travel, trade, and normal personal and business activities). At some point one is spending an added $1 billion per additional expected life saved and you never reach zero expected deaths per year from terrorism due to the "cannot prepare yourself for everything" phenomenon.The challenge for people and politicians is in balancing the potential prevention of acute-but-rare events (terrorist acts) against the certain imposition of diffuse-but-pervasive costs (security measures and the frictions they create). It takes a real leader to calm the situation and avoid stoking the very fears that the terrorist sought to invoke.Blah, blah, blah. By your logic let's also fire every single policemen. Since police can not prevent every single crime anyway, why bother at all? You should start thinking about taking karate lessons and buying yourself VERY BIG GUN, T4A. You see, street punks first kill geeks who give them long, boring and meaningless speeches as you do.I'm sorry that second order equations are beyond your comprehension. I never suggested eliminating all security and counterterrorism measures.There's a modestly happy medium between defenseless society and a police state.
 
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Errrb
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 2:17 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaThere's a modestly happy medium between defenseless society and a police state.I was under impression that your version of happiness is possible only in a defenseless society, but perhaps I was wrong. The reason why for example in US the preventive security in airports is so costly and ineffective is because you liberal kids impose your bullshit PC (multicultural) constraints on it. The security guard in US airport is supposed to pay equal attention to some unshaved motherfucker from Pakistan with smoking wire in his ass and old chinese grandma in a wheelchair. You have to decide whether you want to be honest and effective or PC correct and basically defenseless.
Last edited by Errrb on August 4th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Traden4Alpha
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norway's thing

August 5th, 2011, 10:26 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbQuoteOriginally posted by: Traden4AlphaThere's a modestly happy medium between defenseless society and a police state.I was under impression that your version of happiness is possible only in a defenseless society, but perhaps I was wrong. My version of happiness is possible in a fearless society which arises from a confluence of some reasonable security measures and a pragmatic public that knows that the best way to reduce the impact of terrorism is to not be terrorized by the thought of it. That's why I'm so heartened by Norway's response.QuoteOriginally posted by: ErrrbThe reason why for example in US the preventive security in airports is so costly and ineffective is because you liberal kids impose your bullshit PC (multicultural) constraints on it. The security guard in US airport is supposed to pay equal attention to some unshaved motherfucker from Pakistan with smoking wire in his ass and old chinese grandma in a wheelchair. You have to decide whether you want to be honest and effective or PC correct and basically defenseless.But that's the difference between a dishonorable and an honorable society. The dishonorable society (like 1940s Germany or modern-day Israel) discriminates against people who look different, have different religions, happen to have visited Jordan, etc. They may claim it's for national security, but it's still dishonorable.As for the U.S., it's my contention that the security is overdone, not simply on government budgets, but also on direct damage (X-raying people) and indirect damage (impediments to trade, business interactions, and immigration) done to the ecomony.
 
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Errrb
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Joined: December 17th, 2002, 4:18 pm

norway's thing

August 6th, 2011, 2:16 pm

T4A, comparing nazi Germany with Israel is a cliche used by left wing idiots, arabs and muslim fascists. Your pathetic attempts to sound like an intellectual (judging by your long meaningless posts) in fact show how really clueless you are. What you call "honorable" is actually called being "dumb". The real story is that you feel safe in your little bubble because somebody else is making sure that your little wimpy ass is not kicked by bad dudes. People like you make me sick. Some unshaved camel fucker who decided to blow himself up in a crowded area, at least has the balls to follow up on his crazy ideas. You are just a little whining parasite universally despised by any party in the conflict.
 
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zerdna
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Joined: July 14th, 2002, 3:00 am

norway's thing

August 6th, 2011, 3:20 pm

Different responses could be caused not just by amount of honor. Israelis are getting blown up no matter what they do, they will lose lives if they don't search for bombs and suiciders efficiently. It's not some situation where if they pay for a free massage to every dude with Quran and kalashnikov they are not going to be blown up. They will be, until there is a stone or a tree behind which some Jew is hiding. So, maybe they cannot always pat themselves and glee on how magnanimous they are like T4A, but they are mostly alive -- it's not a bad alternative for being politically correct corpses. Europeans are in a different game. It's like a joke about two drunk hunters who see a bear and one hunter starts tying his shoes. The second hunter asks, "are you going to outrun a bear?", and the guy answers, "no, but i'll outrun you". Decision that European governments, media, and eventually the population in general made in this is to hide while someone takes trouble and expense about dealing with common danger. It's great -- you don't spend lives or money, someone else takes care of the problem, and you just sit and critique that someone else and tell yourself and your friends how much more sophisticated and noble you are. Sort of worked during the last war and after, now it became the only pathway in the brain. Free insurance is so great. Not only comparison of Germany and Israel is a good mantra to say for not being blown up, it justifies the past. You know, the fact that our parents put them on the trains to auschwitz is sort of understandable, because they knew that these were very bad people, just like nazi. This propaganda has been used for so long, it became a reflectory response for the Europeans, I guess this is what goes for display of honor in this case.By the way T, the problem was not exactly that dishonorable Germans looked for a bomb in the dirty underwear of some guys dressed differently -- they kind of burned all the wrong guys into ashes. As far as dishonorable countries go in your list you also forgot to mention US, that interned millions of Japanese during the WW2, just for them being Japanese. In general, me thinks it's a pretty slippery road with your division of societies in honorable and dishonarable.
Last edited by zerdna on August 5th, 2011, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Errrb
Posts: 1398
Joined: December 17th, 2002, 4:18 pm

norway's thing

April 10th, 2012, 4:26 pm

April 10 (Bloomberg) -- Anders Behring Breivik was deemedto be sane in a second psychiatric evaluation of the self-confessed perpetrator of the July 22 killings in Norway thatleft 77 dead.Nice, it sounds this dude will be free man soon.
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