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DevonFangs
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 5:42 pm

Neutrinos for HFT?
 
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quantmeh
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 6:12 pm

they go through earth because they don't interact with most of the stuff in it. how are you going to catch them on the other end?
 
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Anomanderis
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 6:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehthey go through earth because they don't interact with most of the stuff in it. how are you going to catch them on the other end?With other neutrinos?
 
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Collector
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 6:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehthey go through earth because they don't interact with most of the stuff in it. how are you going to catch them on the other end?Neutrino phone"...physicists at Fermilab have just submitted a paper to Modern Physics Letters A in which they describe how they have built themselves a neutrino-powered telephone."The first ever transmission of information using a beam of neutrinos has be achieved by physicists in the US. Come on be a little optimistic, they were able to send Neutrino beams and catch (some of them) already back in the 70s. According to a former physicist (now a super quant) the Neutrinos made a lot of noise when hitting the detector he worked on back in the 70s...most of them passed by I guess, but for binary signals u don't need that many hits, and I guess the technology must have evolved in some 40 years. My millisecond time saving calculations did not take into account altitude of city above sea level (will give minor adjustment for cities at high altitude), I used average of diameter along equator and pole to pole (not the same) as basis for the radius I needed in my calculations for distance through earth between various cities, a little sinus and cosine and yes you are there...(the latitude and longitude for each city (except Hong Kong) I took from GeoHack (someone told me "very" accurate?), for example London: 51° 30′ 26″ N, 0° 7′ 39″ W, in a previous table I had a little inaccurate coordinates)Real fibre optic speed would be slower, I took shortest surface distance...yes optical fiber could likely get somewhat faster in future with use of other materials...Have you guys checked the amounts of Neutrinos in your neighbour hood last few years ? "Knowledge is limited; but imagination encircles the world" Albert E.and Neutrinos go through the world! Time for our imagination not to be limited to encircle the world! This is 2012 after all....
Last edited by Collector on May 1st, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Collector
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 7:44 pm

Also read the interesting comments by physics Professor Learned on encryption etc at end of Bruce Dorminey's article "As to insecurity of the messages and people intercepting them. The solution is totally trivial by methods long in use, that the translation from, say, time of arrival (assuming even that the interceptors have the same good clocks and even know time zero) to message is encripted in a time dependent method (as are our national security codes). Basically, the translation would differ continuously in a way even the NSA could not decript in time to be useful. So forget about that worry? totally within the state of the art for about 40 years.""The other concern about people injecting false hits to confuse, is conceivable, but not worth it to the adversary. It is true that if the second company builds an accelerator near enough to the first projector, then the angle of arrival at the detector may not sort them out. However, I can think of many countermeasures without even trying hard."More from Professor Learned at end of Bruce article:"BTW, I cannot resist mentioning another interesting little idea? wewould know the distance very very well. Neutrinos oscillate betweentypes as they fly along. If I can set the energy precisely, then I canset it such that all (say) muon neutrinos produced will have oscillatedto tau neutrinos at the destination. This would be doable with what iscalled a muon storage ring. (Probably ten times more costly anaccelerator installation however). A better trick would be to makeelectron neutrinos and set the energy for a distance that would see themconverted into muon neutrinos, or not? more information. This gamewould also require a larger detector. The main point is though, thatone could in principle encode more information in such a way. I thinkthis sort of thing would be second generation improvement."more on the end of his blog....
Last edited by Collector on April 30th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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DevonFangs
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 7:49 pm

Anyway, congrats Espen.
 
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zerdna
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 7:57 pm

I didn't read this article, but did Professor Learned or Espen mention that neutrino that they were talking about is the same one that travels faster than light, much faster? It's a new type of HF-tau neutrino that will revolutionize both physics and HFT. Irene Aldridge has already written a draft of the book "how to make friends and make money with HF-tau neutrino"
 
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Collector
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 7:57 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: DevonFangsAnyway, congrats Espen.for what? 30 minutes back of the envelop (or my pen actually went through the paper a few times) calculations sunday afternoon... well thanks I think it was Bruce Dorminey that "first" linked this to trading, at least first to write about it in this way....but yes happy he contacted me for some financial insight and some through earth calculations. People seriously thinking of using such technology to get time advantage over competitors would for sure not write about it....again u better check the Neutrino fluctuations in your neighbourhood
Last edited by Collector on April 30th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Collector
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 9:15 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: outrunWhat I've heard is that with a cube kilometer tank they can detect a dozen of neutrino's per year? You'll need at least something like 10.000's of detections per second for encoding 1 bit / ms reliable. I like the idea of sending a continuously updated lookup-table via a slower high bandwidth conventional channel!Yes important point, but some place one has to start. First transatlantic telegraph cable of 1858 gave us 0.1 word per minute, 1866 cable was 80 times faster. "It was not until the 20th century that message transmission speeds over transatlantic cables would reach even 120 words per minute". (wikipedia) ...Who would ever dream of todays information capacity just 100 years ago...All the experts back then would likely say impossible! Except of course my friend Tesla, wonderful poesy cannot be repeated too often:While listening on my cosmic phoneI caught words from the Olympus blown.A newcomer was shown around;That much I could guess, aided by sound."There's Archimedes with his leverStill busy on problems as ever.Says: matter and force are transmutableAnd wrong the laws you thought immutable.""Below, on Earth, they work at full blastAnd news are coming in thick and fast.The latest tells of a cosmic gun.To be pelted is very poor fun.We are wary with so much at stake,Those beggars are a pest?no mistake.""Too bad, Sir Isaac, they dimmed your renownAnd turned your great science upside down.Now a long haired crank, Einstein by name,Puts on your high teaching all the blame.Says: matter and force are transmutableAnd wrong the laws you thought immutable.""I am much too ignorant, my son,For grasping schemes so finely spun.My followers are of stronger mindAnd I am content to stay behind,Perhaps I failed, but I did my best,These masters of mine may do the rest.Come, Kelvin, I have finished my cup.When is your friend Tesla coming up.""Oh, quoth Kelvin, he is always late,It would be useless to remonstrate."Then silence?shuffle of soft slippered feet?I knock and?the bedlam of the street.Nikola Tesla, Novice
Last edited by Collector on April 30th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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quantmeh
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 9:34 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisQuoteOriginally posted by: quantmehthey go through earth because they don't interact with most of the stuff in it. how are you going to catch them on the other end?With other neutrinos?no, neutrinAs.
 
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Collector
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 1st, 2012, 11:28 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaI didn't read this article, but did Professor Learned or Espen mention that neutrino that they were talking about is the same one that travels faster than light, much faster? It's a new type of HF-tau neutrino that will revolutionize both physics and HFT. Irene Aldridge has already written a draft of the book "how to make friends and make money with HF-tau neutrino"From physics Professor Learned "Please tell the person thinking of the faster than light (superluminal in the lingo) neutrinos that that notion is dead."I will not go over the whole story here, but it has been laid to rest and the OPERA people have admitted their errors (yes, two), as well as other experiments getting the expected speed of light (and some more to weigh in soon). So at least we do not have to consider that. "Nature: Embattled neutrino project leaders step down
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zerdna
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 2nd, 2012, 1:39 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: CollectorQuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaI didn't read this article, but did Professor Learned or Espen mention that neutrino that they were talking about is the same one that travels faster than light, much faster? It's a new type of HF-tau neutrino that will revolutionize both physics and HFT. Irene Aldridge has already written a draft of the book "how to make friends and make money with HF-tau neutrino"From physics Professor Learned "Please tell the person thinking of the faster than light (superluminal in the lingo) neutrinos that that notion is dead."I will not go over the whole story here, but it has been laid to rest and the OPERA people have admitted their errors (yes, two), as well as other experiments getting the expected speed of light (and some more to weigh in soon). So at least we do not have to consider that. "Nature: Embattled neutrino project leaders step downDamn. No cold fusion. No neutrino faster than light. It'd be so simple -- just something like 80% of known physics would be wrong and I would be sending trading signals to myself into the past with faster than light neutrinos and making more money than the fastest HFT traders. Ah, back to the galleys...
 
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MattF
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 2nd, 2012, 7:31 am

I have a little bit of sympathy for OPERA for reporting what they found even though they knew there was almost certainly an error and they'd be ridiculed. If you always "normalise your data" to what's expected you might end up missing something important.Feynman liked to quote the example of Millikan's oil drop experiment for measuring the charge of an electron. Although great science there was a mathematical error in the initial paper. Subsequent experimenters published their own values for the charge but they didn't cluster around the true value as they should have done. They converged towards it from Millikan's original wrong value...
 
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rmax
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Haug on neutrinos for HFT

May 2nd, 2012, 7:49 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: MattFI have a little bit of sympathy for OPERA for reporting what they found even though they knew there was almost certainly an error and they'd be ridiculed. If you always "normalise your data" to what's expected you might end up missing something important.Feynman liked to quote the example of Millikan's oil drop experiment for measuring the charge of an electron. Although great science there was a mathematical error in the initial paper. Subsequent experimenters published their own values for the charge but they didn't cluster around the true value as they should have done. They converged towards it from Millikan's original wrong value...Agreed 100%. They did what they should have done: We have a result we don't understand, what could we have done wrong can you help? This was translated by jornos as "faster than light travel will mean revolution in the space industry".It is exactly this that is making proper publication of results very difficult to do IMHO. Everyone wants the "right" result first off, rather than a result that points to something interesting. They did not even publish the result in a journal, they published in a open forum format...
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