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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:04 am

So if banks will manipulate interest rates and if a previous chief executive of Barclays claims there is "systematic dishonesty", how can it be a good idea to work for one of these institutions?Can it get any worse!
 
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daveangel
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:06 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguySo if banks will manipulate interest rates and if a previous chief executive of Barclays claims there is "systematic dishonesty", how can it be a good idea to work for one of these institutions? Is this a rhetorical question ?Quote Can it get any worse!You need a "?" at the end of that question.
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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:13 am

QuoteIs this a rhetorical question ?Is that?QuoteQuote Can it get any worse!You need a "?" at the end of that question.Its not meant to be a question. Its meant to be a scream of frustration.
 
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daveangel
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:17 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyQuoteIs this a rhetorical question ?Is that? Well, is it or not ?Quote QuoteQuote Can it get any worse!You need a "?" at the end of that question.Its not meant to be a question. Its meant to be a scream of frustration.Why the frustration ?
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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:28 am

Fair enough. Yes its rhetorical. To my mind it might not be good for one's soul or future career to work somewhere with a culture that permits malpractice and dishonesty.Why frustration? INMHO the value of finance is completely misunderstood by most people and there is a tendency to tar everyone who works in finance with the same brush. And that is fine if you don't care about being popular, it can be just put down to people's ignorance. But when supposedly professional people right at the top engage in systematic corruption, people cannot be blamed for taking to the streets. And they still might.Its also frustrating that humanity can figure out the structure of DNA, send people to the moon and produce Beethoven's 9th, but cannot solve basic issues of resource allocation and socio-politcal engineering.
 
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daveangel
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:36 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyFair enough. Yes its rhetorical. To my mind it might not be good for one's soul or future career to work somewhere with a culture that permits malpractice and dishonesty. that's too idealisticQuote Why frustration? INMHO the value of finance is completely misunderstood by most people and there is a tendency to tar everyone who works in finance with the same brush. And that is fine if you don't care about being popular, it can be just put down to people's ignorance. Banker bashing is popular now... people should take it on the chin. Quote But when supposedly professional people right at the top engage in systematic corruption, people cannot be blamed for taking to the streets. And they still might. people who think that people at the top know everything that goes on in a bank are idiots who have not worked at a bank. I don't particularly like Bob Diamond but I don't think he knew this was happening.Quote Its also frustrating that humanity can figure out the structure of DNA, send people to the moon and produce Beethoven's 9th, but cannot solve basic issues of resource allocation and socio-politcal engineering. Greed is good, no ?
Last edited by daveangel on June 27th, 2012, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:42 am

I dont think it is too idealistic. I think that might be part of the problem with our current brand of capitalism. Many other human endeavors are imbued with notions such as duty, fairness and group benefit. Modern finance might lack these, but this is not a law of nature. It is a situation that has been created by a complete lack of thought about how things are set up.
 
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daveangel
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:48 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyI dont think it is too idealistic. I think that might be part of the problem with our current brand of capitalism. Many other human endeavors are imbued with notions such as duty, fairness and group benefit. sure - but there are many others where there is competition and people make money by selling goods and services at inflated prices when it suits them. So you think its better to work at Facebook where you stuff your shares at the highest price ?Quote Modern finance might lack these, but this is not a law of nature. It is a situation that has been created by a complete lack of thought about how things are set up.Banking is capitalism at its lowest most basic form. What is a bank ? All you need is a little capital, authorisation from some regulator to set up a bank and some nice shiny brnaches to attract deposits. After that, you are on your own.
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rmax
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:51 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyI dont think it is too idealistic. I think that might be part of the problem with our current brand of capitalism. Many other human endeavors are imbued with notions such as duty, fairness and group benefit. Modern finance might lack these, but this is not a law of nature. It is a situation that has been created by a complete lack of thought about how things are set up.There are two great examples of where Greed has been taken out of the equation: The humble honey bee and communism.Bees have not evolved for a few million years. Communism has been consigned to the waste bin.If we go down the route of Greed is Good we end up with concentration camps...Bronowski is the Ascent of man captures this best:Quote?It's said that science will dehumanize people and turn them into numbers. That's false, tragically false. Look for yourself. This is the concentration camp and crematorium at Auschwitz. This is where people were turned into numbers. Into this pond were flushed the ashes of some four million people. And that was not done by gas. It was done by arrogance, it was done by dogma, it was done by ignorance. When people believe that they have absolute knowledge, with no test in reality, this is how they behave. This is what men do when they aspire to the knowledge of gods.Science is a very human form of knowledge. We are always at the brink of the known; we always feel forward for what is to be hoped. Every judgment in science stands on the edge of error and is personal. Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible. In the end, the words were said by Oliver Cromwell: "I beseech you in the bowels of Christ: Think it possible you may be mistaken."I owe it as a scientist to my friend Leo Szilard, I owe it as a human being to the many members of my family who died here, to stand here as a survivor and a witness. We have to cure ourselves of the itch for absolute knowledge and power. We have to close the distance between the push-button order and the human act. We have to touch people.? Someone with access to YouTube can post the clip probably.
 
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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:56 am

Facebook is not somewhere I would particularly want to work actually. I think you are being a bit naive about banks. In the UK this situation has been brought about by the mismanagement of the City of London. Banks should be incentivised and regulated to benefit capitalism by providing services in its name. They should not be allowed to create festering systemic risks in the name of profit for employees and share holders. I dont ultimately blame the bankers. Giving the megabanks so much power is like putting a pyromaniac in a fireworks factory, they will do what they can get away with. I blame the politicians for being such stupid, sniveling, spineless shills.
 
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farmer
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 9:57 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyI think that might be part of the problem with our current brand of capitalism. Many other human endeavors are imbued with notions such as duty, fairness and group benefit.Ah, but these are as boats made of wheat paste. Capitalism is robust in the face of dishonesty and other characteristics of man as we actually know him.
 
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neuroguy
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 10:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyI think that might be part of the problem with our current brand of capitalism. Many other human endeavors are imbued with notions such as duty, fairness and group benefit.Ah, but these are as boats made of wheat paste. Capitalism is robust in the face of dishonesty and other characteristics of man as we actually know him.Depends what you mean by robust.
 
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daveangel
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 10:01 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguyFacebook is not somewhere I would particularly want to work actually. I don't care where you wish to work or not. I am just pointing out that everyone is greedy not just the bankers. Quote I think you are being a bit naive about banks. In the UK this situation has been brought about by the mismanagement of the City of London. Banks should be incentivised and regulated to benefit capitalism by providing services in its name. They should not be allowed to create festering systemic risks in the name of profit for employees and share holders. Ultimately, all banks should be backed by governments because those governments and their regulators allow the banks to borrow money from depositors and are 20x leveraged. If banks couldn't do this, capitalism wouldn't function.Quote I dont ultimately blame the bankers. Giving the megabanks so much power is like putting a pyromaniac in a fireworks factory, they will do what they can get away with. I blame the politicians for being such stupid, sniveling, spineless shills. I sort of agree that banks shouldn't be too big to fail. That is where it went wrong.
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ppauper
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 11:36 am

QuoteOriginally posted by: neuroguySo if banks will manipulate interest rates and if a previous chief executive of Barclays claims there is "systematic dishonesty", how can it be a good idea to work for one of these institutions?better to work for the people doing the screwing than to be one of their victims ?
 
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farmer
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Barclays and the LIBOR cartel

June 28th, 2012, 12:20 pm

Anybody can store John's money, and lend it to Joe. There is no natural barrier to entry of the banking business. The cartel is created by government regulations sold as protecting the saver from people who would enter the banking business. But the voter cannot protect himself from the government and the people already in the banking business, from the moment he brings this gorilla into his home to protect and serve him.
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