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Paul
Posts: 8995
Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

Thorpe’s study was from the old days (specifically 2016)
lol, cuch's probably the only one who's old enough to remember the time before Trump.

Healthcare is expensive, especially when run by governments, and the way governments save money is by rationing healthcare. Fewer tests and scans. Don't refer people to specialists. Add long waits to the system. And before you know it, you've got the Liverpool Care Pathway

With regard to obamacare, as Lord Melbourne once said about a different issue, “What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.” Premiums have gone through the roof.
I was unfortunately able to directly compare US and UK healthcare for the same condition a few years ago. I estimated that the US costs were ten times the UK costs. After treatment the insurance company insisted on immediately flying the patient back to the UK even though the doctors said flying too soon was particularly dangerous. I don’t think much of this was specific to the particular condition and so is probably generally true. I also think that most of the testing they did in the US was done purely for $and only succeeded in upsetting the patient. I can imagine the US is better with some very complicated scenarios and some cutting-edge treatments but that will be a tiny minority and won’t necessarily be in the interests of patients. ppauper Posts: 70239 Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm ### Re: obamacare is so stupid it's a long time ago, and one data point, but I don't know if Paul ever knew Keith Stewartson. British (UCL) applied mathematician, had a heart attack while in the US, flown back to the UK, and died. He was before my time, I was discussing his work long ago with one of his collaborators who brought up his death and opined that (in the collaborator's opinion) Stewartson would have survived if he'd stayed in the US Stewartson first had a health problem in 1974 when he suffered a small heart attack. He made a good recovery from that and continued to undertake his research and duties as vigorously as before. He moved from Golders Green to a house in Hampstead Garden Suburb in 1979. It was nine years after his first heart attack, in April 1983, that he suffered a second. He was on a very demanding tour of the West Coast of the United States at the time. He was flown home and taken to University College Hospital. For two weeks it looked as though he would again make a good recovery but, sadly, while in the hospital he suffered a third heart attack from which he died. Paul Posts: 8995 Joined: July 20th, 2001, 3:28 pm ### Re: obamacare is so stupid There was a time when every British applied mathematician had Keith and/or Stewart/Stuart in their name. Did his insurance company also say he had to leave the US asap because healthcare was too expensive there? bearish Posts: 4421 Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm ### Re: obamacare is so stupid This ruling or, more to the point, the republican change in the law that underpins it, will kill a lot of people. But that was always the intent. The fact that a lot of the victims will be poor Trump voters is only partially mitigating, since they won’t die fast enough to make much of a difference in the next election. The GOP is all about preserving the privileges and insane cost structure embedded in the most peculiar US system. Which admittedly works pretty well if you (and your employer) are comfortable spending$30k per year for a family plan.

ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

There was a time when every British applied mathematician had Keith and/or Stewart/Stuart in their name. Did his insurance company also say he had to leave the US asap because healthcare was too expensive there?
I don't know the details.
Back then, he might even not have had insurance

ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

Obamacare was based on lies by Obama

President’s weekly address, June 6, 2009: "If you like the plan you have, you can keep it. If you like the doctor you have, you can keep your doctor, too. The only change you’ll see are falling costs as our reforms take hold."

That was a lie.

Obama in 2013:
“Just visit healthcare.gov, and there you can compare insurance plans, side by side, the same way you’d shop for a plane ticket on Kayak or a TV on Amazon. You enter some basic information, you’ll be presented with a list of quality, affordable plans that are available in your area, with clear descriptions of what each plan covers, and what it will cost. You’ll find more choices, more competition, and in many cases, lower prices.”
That was a lie. In many states, there is a sole provider for obamacare.

Many people found that it was cheaper (and better) to buy non-Obamacare insurance and pay the penalty (sorry, tax), and that penalty was incredibly unpopular. That's how we got to where we are now.
Obamacare did not work as advertised. If it had, all those people wouldn't have paid the penalty (sorry, tax) to opt out and buy insurance elsewhere

ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

Premiums Doubled Once Obamacare Took Full Effect, Report Says
HHS compared premiums in the exchange marketplaces in 2013, one year before Obamacare regulations took full effect, to premiums in the exchange marketplace in 2017. The report found that average monthly premiums increased from $224 in 2013 to$476 in 2014. That constitutes a 105 percent increase in only 4 years.

bearish
Posts: 4421
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

Of course, this analysis is a couple of years old, but the statistics of fucker carlson is very reliable. The best kind! Like ignoring one of the several caveats offered by the authors of the study cited:

"Fourth, this analysis does not account for the fact that the overall populations enrolling in the individual market in 2017 are different from those enrolling in 2013. Older and less healthy people are a larger share of the individual market risk pool now than in 2013. The changing mix of enrollees and adverse selection pressure has likely been a significant cause of the large average premium increases in the individual market over this four-year period."

ppauper
Posts: 70239
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

### Re: obamacare is so stupid

thanks, you hit the nail on the head about the problem with obamacare covering pre-existing conditions, namely that those without pre-existing conditions have to pay far more than pre-obamacare, so naturally many healthy people choose to pay the penalty and opt out of obamacare, leading to a death spiral with an ever higher percentage of obamacare holders having pre-exisiting conditions and premiums soaring as a result,  more than doubling in 4 years