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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 3:56 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisYou're still doing this thing.I personally don't give a flying fuck for adults who are poor. Kids however are a different cup of tea. Creating opportunity for kids, yeah that's a good one.I agree with the poor defecting to the side of the wealthy for financial gain, that's basically the story of the GOP. I don't think the wealthy should necessarily provide for idiots who don't plan properly. I however do believe it's in their best interest to ensure that the vast majority aren't doomed to poverty and despair. People doomed to poverty and despair very often become desperate. Societies with large numbers of desperate individuals rarely do very well.So we're back to education. Educated people are most unlikely to end up poor. So why are you against teaching them to fish when they're young, so that they don't resent your fish when they grow up?How does paying for extensive education for all kids benefit society - shit it probably doesn't benefit them directly. In africa kids will walk miles to go to school, their parents will sacrifice to pay for what meager resources they can muster - and most of those kids end up only marginally better off - if at all. So it stands to reason that if there was this great opportunity for these kids in the states - THEN WHY DO THEY NOT SEEK IT OUT AT ALL?I don't think the wealthy should necessarily provide for idiots who don't plan properly - look at the costs of life extending treatments for the elderly - is everyone entitled to the best medical technology? Yet there is a sense of entitlement - a lot of these crazy expensive treatments are a privilege and NOT a right.Simple - kids take orders from their parents, not from inherent knowledge. If the parents are broken, there's a chance that the children will be unable to make the best decisions, at least not until they're grown up. And trust me on this one, education does open up avenues of opportunities for African kids. I would know.So on this we disagree. I believe society at large benefits from having all members of society having the opportunity to be productive. And yes, I'd be happy to pay extra if I knew that it would lead to more inner city kids getting access to quality education
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:01 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999Anomendairs (Dromedary) - have you actually witnessed class struggle? I noticed on the campus of the Ivy league school a hattred from many of the custodial staff towards the kids there - now I am not saying I blame them the kids were mostly arses - but from what I could see the hatred emanated from envy - and not envy of opportunity - the staff could take any undergraduate classes tuition AND tax free - I encounteredt few who did - they were envious of the iPods, and fancy clothes, etc...Ah. My parents were educators, so yes indeed I did resent the kids who came from the city with their flashy cars and blingage, mostly because I felt that I should have had the same levels of comfort that they had, based on my parents education and knowledge. I know better now.That said - look at the kids from both backgrounds right now - which ones would you say were more likely to do well I wonder?For educators there's a totally different aspect at play. Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.
 
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traderjoe1976
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Joined: May 19th, 2006, 9:50 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Anomanderis Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.Most Finance professors earn between $300 K to $400 for teaching 6 hours a week. Then, if they want they can do other things in their spare time. There are very few professors in the Business schools who earn less than $150 K. Also, there is no retirement age and many of them can draw this salary till they are 80 before they retire if they want.
 
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EscapeArtist999
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Joined: May 20th, 2009, 2:49 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:10 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisQuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999Anomendairs (Dromedary) - have you actually witnessed class struggle? I noticed on the campus of the Ivy league school a hattred from many of the custodial staff towards the kids there - now I am not saying I blame them the kids were mostly arses - but from what I could see the hatred emanated from envy - and not envy of opportunity - the staff could take any undergraduate classes tuition AND tax free - I encounteredt few who did - they were envious of the iPods, and fancy clothes, etc...Ah. My parents were educators, so yes indeed I did resent the kids who came from the city with their flashy cars and blingage, mostly because I felt that I should have had the same levels of comfort that they had, based on my parents education and knowledge. I know better now.That said - look at the kids from both backgrounds right now - which ones would you say were more likely to do well I wonder?For educators there's a totally different aspect at play. Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.The point that I am making is that these people do not want to better themselves, they do not want to be more, they'd like to be Jay-Z, they'd like to consume more resources, date or be the alpha male and let everyone else worry about the consequences - and it does start with the parents, you're right about that: To achieve what you want you would have to ban most of what you see on MTV, hear on the radio etc, ban alcohol, damn the list is endless. I mean much of the time it's less effort to get pregnant and have the system pick up the slack than use a condom?Furthermore there is this notion of the nobility of the poor that the Democrats like to push - the poor are not noble, they are just poor, and many would sell you out for a meal at Fridays (granted they do good chicken wings there)
 
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EscapeArtist999
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Joined: May 20th, 2009, 2:49 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:12 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976QuoteOriginally posted by: Anomanderis Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.Most Finance professors earn between $300 K to $400 for teaching 6 hours a week. Then, if they want they can do other things in their spare time. There are very few professors in the Business schools who earn less than $150 K. Also, there is no retirement age and many of them can draw this salary till they are 80 before they retire if they want.I don't think a b-school professor (other than in the technical sense) counts as an educator - and Dromey wasn't referring to them. Oh and by the way there is talk of a coming glut of b-school profs... so maybe the party's over. And trader joe - you have some great posts, and I do enjoy your icon - but this endless pushing of b-school profs is well boring - stick to your innovative side.
Last edited by EscapeArtist999 on November 12th, 2012, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: traderjoe1976QuoteOriginally posted by: Anomanderis Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.Most Finance professors earn between $300 K to $400 for teaching 6 hours a week. Then, if they want they can do other things in their spare time. There are very few professors in the Business schools who earn less than $150 K. Also, there is no retirement age and many of them can draw this salary till they are 80 before they retire if they want.Are these the kids that EA999 was referring to? Kids whose parents earned 300k were douchebags??
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:31 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisQuoteOriginally posted by: EscapeArtist999Anomendairs (Dromedary) - have you actually witnessed class struggle? I noticed on the campus of the Ivy league school a hattred from many of the custodial staff towards the kids there - now I am not saying I blame them the kids were mostly arses - but from what I could see the hatred emanated from envy - and not envy of opportunity - the staff could take any undergraduate classes tuition AND tax free - I encounteredt few who did - they were envious of the iPods, and fancy clothes, etc...Ah. My parents were educators, so yes indeed I did resent the kids who came from the city with their flashy cars and blingage, mostly because I felt that I should have had the same levels of comfort that they had, based on my parents education and knowledge. I know better now.That said - look at the kids from both backgrounds right now - which ones would you say were more likely to do well I wonder?For educators there's a totally different aspect at play. Educators have kids with upper-middle class mentalities and habits, but lower middle-class finances, and this creates a lot of confusion and pressure.The point that I am making is that these people do not want to better themselves, they do not want to be more, they'd like to be Jay-Z, they'd like to consume more resources, date or be the alpha male and let everyone else worry about the consequences - and it does start with the parents, you're right about that: To achieve what you want you would have to ban most of what you see on MTV, hear on the radio etc, ban alcohol, damn the list is endless. I mean much of the time it's less effort to get pregnant and have the system pick up the slack than use a condom?Furthermore there is this notion of the nobility of the poor that the Democrats like to push - the poor are not noble, they are just poor, and many would sell you out for a meal at Fridays (granted they do good chicken wings there)I understand this position. If there was a way to check and verify that the poor are indeed indolent wretches who don't want to lift a finger, I'd be glad to send them to whatever gulag you please.The reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.In fact, I'm of the beleif that your statement comes straight out of the "let them eat cake" playbook.C'mon dude.
 
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farmer
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Posts: 61
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 4:46 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisThe reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.Being ignorant, or simply lacking a culture and habits that dictate simple life decisions, is their problem. Lack of resources is not their problem. Voting for Obama is a symptom of their ignorance.You are obsessed with making the rich miserable. The idea that their wealth comes at your expense, or taxing their wealth will increase your wealth, is stupid.Wealth is simply the authority to supervise the disposition of a large amount of assets. By this measure, Obama is the wealthiest man in the world. According to your logic, if control over government assets were removed from Obama, you would grow richer, no? Shouldn't we punish him by taking away some of his power? Maybe get rid of the department of health and human services or something? Won't everyone else have more because he then has less?
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:09 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisThe reality is that the vast makprity of them, while ignorant, are hard-working people who currently lack the resources to move themselves in one direction or the other.Being ignorant, or simply lacking a culture and habits that dictate simple life decisions, is their problem. Lack of resources is not their problem. Voting for Obama is a symptom of their ignorance.You are obsessed with making the rich miserable. The idea that their wealth comes at your expense, or taxing their wealth will increase your wealth, is stupid.Wealth is simply the authority to supervise the disposition of a large amount of assets. By this measure, Obama is the wealthiest man in the world. According to your logic, if control over government assets were removed from Obama, you would grow richer, no? Shouldn't we punish him by taking away some of his power? Maybe get rid of the department of health and human services or something? Won't everyone else have more because he then has less?I have a bigger view of things. Unlike you, I believe that the country as a whole, as well as the individuals therein, benefit when everyone plays a part. The way to ensure that is through education. Otherwise, only the wealthy will get opportunities.I believe that ability to innovate and create new streams of revenue are spread evenly across all the populace, irrespective of race and wealth. So - in order to have a country that's competitive globally and innovative, we have to tap all our human resources, regardless of wealth. Otherwise, we're doomed.I'd be glad to see what song you're singing when the quant jobs start getting outsourced. Just watch, it's coming.
 
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farmer
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Posts: 61
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:14 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI have a bigger view of things. Unlike you, I believe that the country as a whole, as well as the individuals therein, benefit when everyone plays a part. The way to ensure that is through education. Otherwise, only the wealthy will get opportunities.I believe that ability to innovate and create new streams of revenue are spread evenly across all the populace, irrespective of race and wealth. So - in order to have a country that's competitive globally and innovative, we have to tap all our human resources, regardless of wealth. Otherwise, we're doomed.Where is this country in which school, and opportunities to get a job and advance, or to innovate and promote a product, are available only to the wealthy?
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:24 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisI have a bigger view of things. Unlike you, I believe that the country as a whole, as well as the individuals therein, benefit when everyone plays a part. The way to ensure that is through education. Otherwise, only the wealthy will get opportunities.I believe that ability to innovate and create new streams of revenue are spread evenly across all the populace, irrespective of race and wealth. So - in order to have a country that's competitive globally and innovative, we have to tap all our human resources, regardless of wealth. Otherwise, we're doomed.Where is this country in which school, and opportunities to get a job and advance, or to innovate and promote a product, are available only to the wealthy?The one that you constantly insist is the way forward for the USA.
 
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farmer
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Posts: 61
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:27 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisThe one that you constantly insist is the way forward for the USA.Which of Romney's policy proposals was going to get rid of school, and make new products illegal?
 
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Anomanderis
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Joined: November 15th, 2011, 10:07 pm

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:32 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: farmerQuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisThe one that you constantly insist is the way forward for the USA.Which of Romney's policy proposals was going to get rid of school, and make new products illegal?Again - I'm done talking to you.Sorry, but it's counterproductive.
 
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farmer
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Posts: 61
Joined: December 16th, 2002, 7:09 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:36 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: AnomanderisAgain - I'm done talking to you.Sorry, but it's counterproductive.You were speaking of a policy proposal where the wealthy play by different rules, specifically they will be allowed to go to school whereas the poor will not be.Can you at least provide a copy-paste of this policy proposal?
Last edited by farmer on November 12th, 2012, 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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traderjoe1976
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Joined: May 19th, 2006, 9:50 am

calling the election for romney

November 13th, 2012, 5:45 pm

farmer you are not going to let him get away with ignoring you, are you?