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tagoma
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:20 pm

Guammit! This tribute thread to Miss Maggie has derived!(If I remember well this song was banned in the UK)
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:20 pm

Che Guevara looked good in a hat. P
 
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Polter
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:25 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnI mean, Fermion has told us a lot about himself in the last 11 years. That's what I mean by 'credentials'. Quote Hence I'm not quoting myself (that would be somewhat narcissistic, wouldn't it?), Well maybe you should and no, giving an honest opinion has nothing to do with narcissism. Strange associaton, btw. Quote "Slate, Huff Post, NYT, MoJo, or New Yorker" (or Jon Lee AndersonI plead ignorance. I don't read any of this stuff from anywhere. Everyone has agenda. Do you read Daniel Henninger?Here you go:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/bios/ ... AndersonNo, I don't have to agree with everything in "this stuff from anywhere," but that's what I mean by credentials.
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:28 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: edouard Guammit! This tribute thread to Miss Maggie has derived!(If I remember well this song was banned in the UK)It's the case that all French songs are banned in the UK, not just this one!P
 
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Polter
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:30 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulChe Guevara looked good in a hat. P:-)Still, looks best on T-shirts:
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 7:36 pm

He was actually bald.PPS That's not an attack on you, fermion.
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Cuchulainn
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:23 pm

QuoteHere you go:http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/bios/ ... ndersonYou seem to know a lot about Che. What about Trotsky?
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trackstar
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:26 pm

Yes, let's drill down a bit more on the Russian side of this.Here are the two leaders that would be relevant, leading up to and including Che's political lifetime:Nikita Khrushchev27 March 1955 - 14 October 196420th - 22nd Congress Served as the First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of Soviet Union and Chairman of the Council of Ministers from 27 March 1958 to 14 October 1964. While vacationing in Abkhazia, Khrushchev was called by Leonid Brezhnev to return to Moscow for a special meeting of the Presidium, to be held on 13 October 1964. On 14 October, Khrushchev's retirement was announced.Leonid Brezhnev14 October 1964 - 10 November 198223rd - 26th Congress Served as First Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, was later renamed General Secretary, and later Chairman of the Presidium.****So, the transition from Khruschev to Brezhnev was a major turning point in the Cold War and had many implications for other hot spots in the rest of the world as well. Look at the case of Vietnam - just one example.Would anyone care to comment on their leadership styles and political objectives and then tie that into the discussion of Che, Cuba, and the final events in Bolivia?
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Cuchulainn
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:28 pm

Galway strongly warned of plan for statue of Che Guevara by top American politician?Beautiful beaches and vibrant arts festival will be marred? says House Foreign Affairs head LOL! Sounds like pressure. Polter, so much for your reference to the 1st amendment!QuoteGuevara's Irish links have been traced to Galway, and one Patricio Lynch, the founder of the Argentine branch of his family, was said to have been born in Galway in 1715. From there he spent some time in Spain before eventually settling in Argentina.QuoteAmerican politicians, especially those of Cuban descent have strongly objected.
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Cuchulainn
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:37 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PolterQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulChe Guevara looked good in a hat. P:-)Still, looks best on T-shirts:Yes, a powerful symbol created by Dublin man Jim Fitzpatrick.
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rmax
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:40 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarLet's drill down a bit more on the Russian side of this....Khrushchev although famous for banging his shoe on the table at the UN was quiet an adept politician. He managed to take over being General Secretary in the face of Beria - no small feat. He also admitted to some of the excesses of the Stalinist years (i.e. the purges). He was a workaholic but he had a seriously dangerous attitude to international politics: the Cuban missile crisis was a dangerous game of brinkmanship: however he did win little publicized retreat of US missiles from Turkey. So although it looked as though it was pointless he did gain.Brezhnev was an imbecile. I do not know how he got into power. Only 2 people have won hero of the soviet union 4 times: General Zhukov: the architect of the soviets winning against Germany and the strategy behind the Kursk salient...and Breznev who did what??Not sure what it has to do with Che...
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trackstar
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 8:49 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: trackstarLet's drill down a bit more on the Russian side of this....Khrushchev although famous for banging his shoe on the table at the UN was quiet an adept politician. He managed to take over being General Secretary in the face of Beria - no small feat. He also admitted to some of the excesses of the Stalinist years (i.e. the purges). He was a workaholic but he had a seriously dangerous attitude to international politics: the Cuban missile crisis was a dangerous game of brinkmanship: however he did win little publicized retreat of US missiles from Turkey. So although it looked as though it was pointless he did gain.Brezhnev was an imbecile. I do not know how he got into power. Only 2 people have won hero of the soviet union 4 times: General Zhukov: the architect of the soviets winning against Germany and the strategy behind the Kursk salient...and Breznev who did what??Not sure what it has to do with Che...Yes - very good on Kh. On Br. - on a conference call right now, but more later...
 
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trackstar
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:06 pm

Still on this conf. call, but one question is:How would the Soviet leadership (those operating behind Brezhnev) have viewed CG?
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trackstar
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:16 pm

And going back to Kr. - was CG a factor in his removal from power?Think about the Bay of Pigs (April 1961) and the Cuban Missile Crisis (October 1962). How did the Russians perform in these situations and who was right in the thick of things? What kind of political and diplomatic trajectories did he have (regionally and internationally) after those events?
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rmax
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 11th, 2013, 9:21 pm

A pain in the neck and were probably relieved when the CIA murdered him. I always get the feeling that the Soviets had a singular view: their communism and not anyone else's. Castro was useful. Che upheld communism but not what they wanted.Forced labour camps and executions? So who is innocent here? The NKVD was formed from the Cheka by Lenin. Trotsky who is probably the most "acceptable" old style communist still went and forced people into labour camps and shot those that did not fight for the cause. The British invented the concentration camp for the Boer war and murdered a few people in Ireland and many more in Africa and India (Amrittar). What about the excesses in Far East by the US in the second world war? Or those in Vietnam for Gitmo now.Politics means blood and lots of it.
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