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daveangel
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 1:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulBaroness Thatcher's death may have divided the UK, but, on the bright side, when Blair dies we will be united again!PBlair took Thatcherism and dressed it up in left wing clothes.Legacy: New Labour??New Labour is dead.. we have the "Old Workshy" party back
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Traden4Alpha
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 1:21 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulBaroness Thatcher's death may have divided the UK, but, on the bright side, when Blair dies we will be united again!PBlair took Thatcherism and dressed it up in left wing clothes.Legacy: New Labour??
 
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Cuchulainn
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 1:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: daveangelQuoteOriginally posted by: CuchulainnQuoteOriginally posted by: rmaxQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulBaroness Thatcher's death may have divided the UK, but, on the bright side, when Blair dies we will be united again!PBlair took Thatcherism and dressed it up in left wing clothes.Legacy: New Labour??New Labour is dead.. we have the "Old Workshy" party backStill, I like Boris Johnson. Of course, he's not Labour. Even Ken likes him. http://judophotos.com/uploaded_images/F ... ohnson.jpg
Last edited by Cuchulainn on April 8th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 1:41 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: rmax QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulBaroness Thatcher's death may have divided the UK, but, on the bright side, when Blair dies we will be united again!PBlair took Thatcherism and dressed it up in left wing clothes.On the Principles (x axis), Pragmatism (y axis) chart we haveIron Lady (0.9, 0.2)The Grey One (0.6, 0.3)Bliar (0.05, 0.997)The Insane One (0.01, 0.01)Call Me Dave (0.6, 0.5)P
 
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daveangel
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 1:50 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulQuoteOriginally posted by: rmax QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulBaroness Thatcher's death may have divided the UK, but, on the bright side, when Blair dies we will be united again!PBlair took Thatcherism and dressed it up in left wing clothes.On the Principles (x axis), Pragmatism (y axis) chart we haveIron Lady (0.9, 0.2)The Grey One (0.6, 0.3)Bliar (0.05, 0.997)The Insane One (0.01, 0.01)Call Me Dave (0.6, 0.5)PI would have put "Call me Dave"'s Principles level at 0.4 myself. I thought I Maggie was more pragmatic than 0.2 (for example she had a large number of "wets" in her cabinet).
knowledge comes, wisdom lingers
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 2:04 pm

Am happy to split the difference on CMD, but keeping Maggie's Pragmatism at 0.2 since she commendably didn't care what people thought about her.Iron Lady (0.9, 0.2)The Grey One (0.6, 0.3)Bliar (0.05, 0.997)The Insane One (0.01, 0.01)Call Me Dave (0.5, 0.5)P
Last edited by Paul on April 8th, 2013, 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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zerdna
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 2:16 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulQuoteOriginally posted by: FermionShe once said "there is no such thing as society".She once actually said "I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."And this is pretty much what everyone is now saying. She just said it 25 years before the current lot of bandwagon jumpers.PThis quote sounds like it's taken from the mouth of someone from "Democracy in America". Say some anonymous pile of jelly starts to take care of your kids, old, and you friends in trouble. It's no longer paramount for you to take care of your old, kids, and friends in trouble, init it? What's a practical reason to even have friends, apart from getting a bulk discount on beer? A natural incentives to care of having a spouse to raise kids, to give as much care as possible to health and future of your kids because you expect them to take care of you later on , to create a tight association with your friends providing them help and expecting help -- this all disappears. Instead of maintaining links between humans and their mutual obligations which is what society is, this arrangement kills all links and obligations in society, kills society. All is left is the government and relationship with it. Government watches the drone, the drone watches TV -- and repeats what it says.
 
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Cuchulainn
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 2:19 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: zerdnaQuoteOriginally posted by: PaulQuoteOriginally posted by: FermionShe once said "there is no such thing as society".She once actually said "I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."And this is pretty much what everyone is now saying. She just said it 25 years before the current lot of bandwagon jumpers.PThis quote sounds like it's taken from the mouth of someone from "Democracy in America". Say some anonymous pile of jelly starts to take care of your kids, old, and you friends in trouble. It's no longer paramount for you to take care of your old, kids, and friends in trouble, init it? What's a practical reason to even have friends, apart from getting a bulk discount on beer? A natural incentives to care of having a spouse to raise kids, to give as much care as possible to health and future of your kids because you expect them to take care of you later on , to create a tight association with your friends providing them help and expecting help -- this all disappears. Instead of maintaining links between humans and their mutual obligations which is what society is, this arrangement kills all links and obligations in society, kills society. All is left is the government and relationship with it. Government watches the drone, the drone watches TV -- and repeats what it says.Good summary.
 
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Fermion
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 3:33 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Paul@exner You have to see how frightening the opposition was at the time. Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock. I think they saw the UK as a New Albania!PIn many ways I think it is true that the poverty of the Labour leadership contributed greatly to Thatcher's dominance of the political arena. Arthur Scargill was misguided in many ways. For instance he ensured defeat for the miners' strike by not allowing a ballot, thereby allowing Thatcher and her tame media to drive a wedge between his supporters and those miners who felt disenfranchised. However he was also one of the few leaders of the labour movement who saw clearly where Thatcher was taking us and had the courage to stand up to her.
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 3:41 pm

Did Scargill get that Kremlin money in the end? To keep the strikes going. I can't recall the outcome.P
 
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Fermion
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Joined: November 14th, 2002, 8:50 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 3:45 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulQuoteOriginally posted by: FermionShe once said "there is no such thing as society".She once actually said "I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."And this is pretty much what everyone is now saying. She just said it 25 years before the current lot of bandwagon jumpers.PYes, but she had a rather upside-down view of what was an obligation and what was an entitlement. It seems that capital had all the entitlements and the rest of us all the obligations.
 
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Fermion
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 3:52 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: PaulDid Scargill get that Kremlin money in the end? To keep the strikes going. I can't recall the outcome.PI don't recall either, but something is whispering in my ear that it might have been sequestered by the capitalist courts along with the funds of many other unions that tried to stop Thatcher's destruction of their organisations and failed. Of course, it's no surprise that the Kremlin had an interest in the matter as nuclear-armed cruise missiles were being installed in the UK under US control.
 
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Paul
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 3:53 pm

<speechless>P
 
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Traden4Alpha
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RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 4:07 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Paul<speechless>PMore evidence of the Cauchy distribution of forum members?
 
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Fermion
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Joined: November 14th, 2002, 8:50 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher

April 9th, 2013, 4:20 pm

QuoteOriginally posted by: Paul<speechless>P<stunned to have silenced such an erudite and knowledgeable person><ears wide open and ready to listen>
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