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ppauper
Topic Author
Posts: 69386
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 10:20 am

LDL-C Does Not Cause Cardiovascular Disease: a comprehensive review of current literature

Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology
17 authors, one of whom is at Harvard Medical School

a few posts down, we had
not specific to medicine
Beware those scientific studies -- most are wrong, researcher warns
sample size seems to be the issue
Because when studies are replicated, they rarely come up with the same results. Only a third of the 100 studies published in three top psychology journals could be successfully replicated in a large 2015 test.
Medicine, epidemiology, population science and nutritional studies fare no better, Ioannidis said, when attempts are made to replicate them.
If you want to prove a particular theory, I'm guessing you can just take a small sample size and keep rerunning the experiment until you find a cohort that proves it
 
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katastrofa
Posts: 6555
Joined: August 16th, 2007, 5:36 am
Location: Alpha Centauri

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 11:54 am

Replicating works only in physics, imho. In medicine and social sciences it would require a time machine. Just my bit of OT.
 
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ISayMoo
Posts: 1117
Joined: September 30th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 12:27 pm

"Science is either physics or stamp collecting" (E. A. Rutherford)
 
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katastrofa
Posts: 6555
Joined: August 16th, 2007, 5:36 am
Location: Alpha Centauri

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 1:21 pm

Surprisingly coming from a guy whose physical model was in fact an atom-size perpetuum mobile :-)
 
User avatar
bearish
Posts: 3911
Joined: February 3rd, 2011, 2:19 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 3:26 pm

LDL-C Does Not Cause Cardiovascular Disease: a comprehensive review of current literature

Expert Review of Clinical Pharmacology
17 authors, one of whom is at Harvard Medical School

a few posts down, we had
not specific to medicine
Beware those scientific studies -- most are wrong, researcher warns
sample size seems to be the issue
Because when studies are replicated, they rarely come up with the same results. Only a third of the 100 studies published in three top psychology journals could be successfully replicated in a large 2015 test.
Medicine, epidemiology, population science and nutritional studies fare no better, Ioannidis said, when attempts are made to replicate them.
If you want to prove a particular theory, I'm guessing you can just take a small sample size and keep rerunning the experiment until you find a cohort that proves it
The lead author of this study settled this conclusion in his mind 35 years ago, and has written 80 other versions of this paper plus a few books. He was booted out of academia in the late 70’s.
 
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ppauper
Topic Author
Posts: 69386
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 3:44 pm

evidently he found 16 friends who agreed with him.

there used to be a joke about economists that winston churchill posed a question to 3 economists and got 4 different opinions, because Keynes always had 2. It's the same with physicians.

reproducibility is a serious issue with medical studies.
Not just slightly different values of correlation coefficients or life expectancy, but the opposite results.
Mary Cooper: The trick to pancakes is bacon grease. I cook everything in it.
Leonard: Everything? Aren't you worried about your health?
Mary Cooper: Oh, doctors are always changing their minds. One week bacon grease is bad for you. The next week we're not getting enough of it.
 
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katastrofa
Posts: 6555
Joined: August 16th, 2007, 5:36 am
Location: Alpha Centauri

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 18th, 2018, 10:17 pm

I guess one cannot expect any persistent reproducibility at this level of precision of medical interventions. Not only our genotypes are not equally susceptible to the same treatment, but also our microbial composition (which we collect and "synchronise" with the environment during the whole life) vary strongly from individual to individual and evolves at high speed (they can HGT, can't they?). Sometimes a medicine works for one person and the other may have a bacterium, which is able to decompose the particular medicine and nullify the therapy. I have a quiet belief that this bacterial DNA has a more crucial role here than our own.
 
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Collector
Posts: 3957
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 19th, 2018, 10:04 pm

 
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Cuchulainn
Posts: 57288
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 7:38 am
Location: Amsterdam
Contact:

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 24th, 2018, 12:00 pm

Inquiry hears radiographer mistook knee for elbow

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/092 ... u-inquiry/

Didn't know arse from her elbow, what?
 
User avatar
ppauper
Topic Author
Posts: 69386
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 24th, 2018, 1:26 pm

Inquiry hears radiographer mistook knee for elbow

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2018/092 ... u-inquiry/

Didn't know arse from her elbow, what?
it sounds like she's gone home to Zambia, so any punishment will have zero effect
 
User avatar
Collector
Posts: 3957
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 28th, 2018, 7:53 pm

One of the Founders of Cochrane has been fired, because he was not political correct. Cochrane was started to have independent institution to go through medical science. 

Gøtzsche has for example pointed out that ‘Prescription pills are Britain’s third biggest killer’ (MailOnline, 15 September 2015) Professor Peter Gøtzsche writes that: ‘As an investigator for the independent Cochrane Collaboration – an international body that assesses medical research – my role is to look forensically at the evidence for treatments’ and goes on to make a series of statements about the effects of psychiatric drugs and their use by doctors in the UK."

he also published in very good journal such as 

Challenges of independent assessment of potential harms of HPV vaccines

and some nice book titles

Deadly Medicines and Organised Crime: How Big Pharma Has Corrupted Healthcare (2013) (Winner, British Medical Association’s Annual Book Award in the category Basis of Medicine in 2014). 
"PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE THE THIRD LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH AFTER HEART DISEASE AND CANCER. In his latest ground-breaking book, Peter C Gotzsche exposes the pharmaceutical industries and their charade of fraudulent behaviour,"

Mammography Screening: Truth, Lies and Controversy (2012) (Winner of the Prescrire Prize 2012).   

so yes he had to be fired as not political correct ?

http://www.deadlymedicines.dk
Last edited by Collector on September 28th, 2018, 10:49 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
User avatar
Collector
Posts: 3957
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

September 28th, 2018, 8:03 pm

Medicine seems to be very Political (like much else) !

I have for many years noticed extreme asymmetry between alternative medicine requirement and school medicine, if one person die from let’s say a herb, out of tens of thousands that have take it, and possibly that not even the herb was the cause, then western school medicines can go crazy and claim it is very dangerous and try to get it closed down etc. If hundreds, if not thousands even "knowingly" die of some prescription drug (that only covered up symptoms) it is kind of okay. Well if it has a lot of papers published in double peer reviewed journals of high statues it must be good for you!
 
User avatar
Collector
Posts: 3957
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

October 2nd, 2018, 2:53 pm

Measuring Artificial Sweeteners Toxicity

and for long time government Risk committees (for example in Norway) have claimed even children could eat loads of it without any risk....

better to stick to sweet potatoes and banans (un-processed)
 
User avatar
ppauper
Topic Author
Posts: 69386
Joined: November 15th, 2001, 1:29 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

October 2nd, 2018, 3:05 pm

Measuring Artificial Sweeteners Toxicity

and for long time government Risk committees (for example in Norway) have claimed even children could eat loads of it without any risk....

better to stick to sweet potatoes and banans (un-processed)
indeed
At the moment we have a war against sugar, and food and beverages manufacturers are replacing sugar by all those horrible chemicals
 
User avatar
Collector
Posts: 3957
Joined: August 21st, 2001, 12:37 pm

Re: is medicine a science ?

October 2nd, 2018, 3:12 pm

Measuring Artificial Sweeteners Toxicity

and for long time government Risk committees (for example in Norway) have claimed even children could eat loads of it without any risk....

better to stick to sweet potatoes and banans (un-processed)
indeed
At the moment we have a war against sugar, and food and beverages manufacturers are replacing sugar by all those horrible chemicals
instead of refined suger they should just tell people to eat non refined (bananas etc), not to replace with toxic chemicals...IYI morons with no clue on risk
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